Upgrading from 9.2 to 10.4.3.

[Mandy]

Just got the upgrade yesterday from Compusmart and was told I barely have enuf RAM to install it.

I got it so I could install Final Cut Pro as I only use this iMac for video editing, and would like to know if I can get by without installing any more RAM.

Would it help to uninstall the 9.2?

Many thanks for any info on this.

ps. I did read the other thread on the 10.4.5 but not sure if this applies to 4.3.

[Ottawaman]

We need more info about your system.

[Ottawaman]

OS X 10.4.5
Requirements
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G3, G4 or G5 processor
Built-in FireWire
DVD drive for installation
256MB of RAM
3GB of available hard disk space (4GB if you install the developer tools)


FCP 5


Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) or PowerPC G5 processor
1GHz or faster processor for HD features
PowerPC G5 processor for authoring HD DVDs or for playback of DVD Studio Pro 4-authored HD DVDs
Mac OS X version 10.3.9 or Mac OS X v10.4.3 or later
Mac OS X version 10.4 or later required to use Image Units and 16- and 32-bit float rendering in Motion
QuickTime 7.0.4 or later
512MB of RAM; 1GB of RAM for HD features (2GB recommended)
Display with 1024-by-768 (or higher) resolution
AGP Quartz Extreme or PCI Express graphics card
Motion requires the standard graphics card in any Power Mac G5, iMac G5, PowerBook G4 (1.25GHz or faster ), or flat-panel iMac (1.25GHz or faster). Get a complete list of recommended graphics cards.


4GB of disk space to install all applications
Additional 42GB to install all optional templates, loops, content, and tutorials (can be installed on separate discs)
DVD drive for installation
DLT drive for replication of DVD Studio Pro 4-authored HD DVDs

[Child of Cupertino]

LONG time no see in here, Mandy!

When you were last in this forum, didn't you have a G3 iMac? If you still do, regardless of it's vintage, you're probably underpowered for running Final Cut Pro under Mac OS X -- and Mac OS X won't be sprightly for that matter. Time for an intel-powered Mac Mini, perhaps??

[Tim]

oh yea it'll be a little bit of a chug fest with FCP 5 in X.

There's no getting around X needing a good amount of ram, 256 is enough to do basic stuff, but editing video yikes. A mini is the best option for the money.

[Mandy]

[QUOTE=Ottawaman]OS X 10.4.5
Requirements
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G3, G4 or G5 processor
Built-in FireWire
DVD drive for installation
256MB of RAM
3GB of available hard disk space (4GB if you install the developer tools)

Many thanks for such prompt, helpful replies to all.

Child of Cupertina, what a memory you have, yes, I do have the G3 and looks like 256 RAM. Looks like I made a mistake getting the 10.4 OS (actually the FCExpress was a present which led into upgrading).

Since I just got a new PC with all the bells and whistles, am not in a position right now for getting another new computer or even getting more RAM, altho would consider that if it will help.

Have been quite happy video editing with what I have.

So, my question is now, should I go ahead and install it anyway to see what happens, and then the FCExpress and if it doesnt work out, can I then uninstall them both?

Should I install over the 9.2?

I have an external hard drive, would that be a help?

Again, many thanks for all this input.

ps. am also googling for info on this as well.

[Ottawaman]

Final Cut Express......
System Requirements


Macintosh computer with a 500MHz or faster PowerPC G4 or G5 processor (550MHz for PowerBook G4 or iBook G4, 450MHz for dual PowerPC G4 or G5)
Not supported on Intel-based Mac computers with Rosetta
HD features require 1GHz or faster single or dual PowerPC and 1GB of RAM
An AGP or PCI Express graphics card compatible with Quartz Extreme (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/quartzextreme/)
Mac OS X 10.3.7 or later
QuickTime 6.5.2 or later
384MB of RAM (512MB required for RT Extreme and Soundtrack)
1GB of available disk space for application installation
5GB of available disk space for Soundtrack content
9GB of available disk space for LiveType content
DVD drive for software installation
http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/specs.html

[Child of Cupertino]

Pity on the new PC, Mandy ;) Coulda got a nice Mac Mini with all the bells and whistles.

Anyway, assuming your G3 iMac has a DVD-ROM drive and Firewire, you've got at least a 400MHz G3 and 10GB drive (you do need to give us your full specs when posting such questions, Mandy). The G3 iMac was made up to a speed of 700MHz G3, but I'll bet you're somewhere around the 400MHz mark.

If what you have currently still works, I would suggest leaving it as is and save your shekels until you can buy a Mac Mini. Running OS X for typical use (web, Office) on such a G3 iMac would be okay with a MINIMUM of 512MB of RAM. Running iMovie or iDVD or the Final Cut stuff will probably be too slow and may not install ANYWAY. Even iLife '06 wants a G4/733 (http://www.apple.com/ilife/systemrequirements.html). Bottom line is that I think you might be asking too much of your venerable iMac, there.

A final note of caution: if you indeed proceed upgrading to Mac OS X, you may need to upgrade the firmware of your iMac prior to the OS upgrade. Consult these pages for details and downloads:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58174

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75130

[Mandy]

Anyway, assuming your G3 iMac has a DVD-ROM drive and Firewire, you've got at least a 400MHz G3 and 10GB drive (you do need to give us your full specs when posting such questions, Mandy). The G3 iMac was made up to a speed of 700MHz G3, but I'll bet you're somewhere around the 400MHz mark.


A final note of caution: if you indeed proceed upgrading to Mac OS X, you may need to upgrade the firmware of your iMac prior to the OS upgrade. Consult these pages for details and downloads:

I do have firewire and DVD, with 500 MHz. So as I understand it then, and checking some of the above links, I could upgrade to the 10.4.3 altho for video editing, the system could run slow.

But it looks like the G3 wont take the Final Cut Express which I why got the upgrade in the first place.

What firmware is that. I havent added anything since I got the G3 about 5 years ago (it isnt even on the internet).

So maybe next year, If I dont take a trip or have to pay a big vet bill, Ill get a brand new computer.

Again, many thanks for the above input. Really appreciate the quick response and all the info, and am checking out all those links.

ps. since I had no questions or problems I didnt need to post here, but do check in every now and then out of interest.

[Child of Cupertino]

Firmware is analogous to a PC's BIOS, except it accessed far more rarely on Macs than it is on PCs. Updates are also rare, but do need to be checked up on once in a while -- especially with older machines moving to much newer operating system versions.

Take care :)

[Mandy]

I did check out that link, and it does look there is an update for firmware. But I would need to put the iMac on the internet (without any AV) to get it.

I still would like to upgrade, but if its not too late, I may return it to Compusmart on Wed when Im downtown. Will decide then.

Many thanks for all this info. Much appreciated.

[Ottawaman]

Download the file on your pc and burn a disk.

[Child of Cupertino]

But I would need to put the iMac on the internet (without any AV) to get it.

SO???! This aint a Windows PC we're talking about. You've virtually nothing to worry about -- especially for just an update.

But, Ottawaman's suggestion would actually be more convenient. The "gotcha" with burning a CD on a PC to read in Mac OS 9 is that OS 9 needs something in order to do it. It's been so long, I cannot recall. It might even be just a setting in a Mac OS control panel. Anyway, if you want to go this way, I am sure Ottawaman would post the question in another to find the answer.

Won't ya, AM? :P

My bottom line is that, as you cannot use any newer version of iMovie and the rest of iLife on that old Mac, you might as well leave it as it is. It aint broke, so don't fix it. It is unfortunate, however, that you don't have a newer Mac, because iLife '06 is absolutely awesome. AWESOME, I tell you!!

What version of iMovie are you using, by the way? Version 2?

[Tim]

I have 4 macs without AV on constantly for years and nada.
:)

[Child of Cupertino]

Me too. Never have and, even in the best scenario of Apple growing market-share (my rosiest prediction is 10%), probably never will.

[Mandy]

SO???! This aint a Windows PC we're talking about. You've virtually nothing to worry about -- especially for just an update.
My bottom line is that, as you cannot use any newer version of iMovie and the rest of iLife on that old Mac, you might as well leave it as it is. It aint broke, so don't fix it. It is unfortunate, however, that you don't have a newer Mac, because iLife '06 is absolutely awesome. AWESOME, I tell you!!

What version of iMovie are you using, by the way? Version 2?

Yes, version 2 and actually am quite satisfied with it. I start editing on the iMac and finish on my new PC using Pinnacle plus if I want more.

Since everybody seemed to agree there was no danger in putting my iMac on to the internet without any AV (or very little), that's what I did and installed successfully the firmware update. Later will try installing the OS upgrade just to see what happens.

Not sure I know what the iLife is, as dont think I ever used it.

[Child of Cupertino]

Some time after version 2 of iMovie, Apple created an entire suite of programs for consumer-level digital media creation, all under the umbrella name of "iLife". While this suite is a for-fee package for current owners (at a VERY modest price of around $80.00 or something -- it's an absolute steal for what you get), iLife is included with all new Macs.

The included programs are iMovie, iPhoto (digital still photos), iDVD (creating DVD interfaces), iWeb (web page creation), Garageband (midi and audio recording/editing, virtual instrument and loop libraries, Podcast production). iTunes, while separately available for free, also plugs into the iLife environment.

The entire suite is quite excellent. The feature set of each application is pretty good, and they way these different programs share their media with each other in an integrated manner is without peer. This makes the creative process much smoother, as integrating media is more easier and immediate.

The features and transition/effects offerings in iMovie are now much better than what is in iMovie 2. perhaps the most useful feature is what Apple calls "The Ken Burns Effect", allowing you to scan and pan across still images. Audio editing is far more advanced in iMovie than in version 2.

You seem to have always liked doing video with computers. You really owe it to yourself to fully investigate what iLife has to offer, and may I submit to you that you could consider discarding your current workflow from Mac to PC (and back??!) and go iLife all the way. It is an award-winning consumer media production bundle without peer on the Mac or Windows side, designed completely to make what you do as easy and as effectively as possible. Of course, you'd need to buy a new Mac, but your current G3 iMac is archaic by today's standards anyway, incapable of serving you in ways current software offers. The Mac Mini has a great feature set at a very reasonable price, offering more than sufficient power for consumer/prosumer activities. I have a Mac Mini for my family (the original, G4 powered one -- they're using Intel CPUs now), and we use iLife on it all the time, creating media that blows viewers away. iDVD is an excellent finishing touch for DVD creation.

I am sure you are very used to your workflow, but that doesn't mean that there is a better way -- and better results. If I were you, having used iMovie 2(?!) for so long and apparently being satisfied with it, I would be very curious about how far Apple has advanced their software and I would seriously look into it.

Check it out!

http://www.apple.com/ca/ilife/

[Child of Cupertino]

Also, you would finally retire Mac OS 9 in the process of getting a newer Macintosh. After all, the rest of the world has already. OS 9 is dead-gone. Mac OS X is a fantastic operating system, years ahead of OS 9... dare I say, it's the best operating system on the planet right now.

[Ottawaman]

Hey Mandy,
"You know ya wanna" :)

[Child of Cupertino]

Informative video tours of iLife, including iMovie:
http://www.apple.com/ilife/quicktour/imovie/

and iDVD:
http://www.apple.com/ilife/quicktour/idvd/

Hit the "Play All" and check it out.

[Mandy]

Hey Mandy,
"You know ya wanna" :)

Yes, y-e-s, YES.

However, will have to wait til next year.

I tried to install the upgrade, but the iMac kept rejecting the disc, so that settled that. In spite of being assured by Compusmart that I could just make it. So will be returning it and get a refund, minus a 15% restocking fee.

Did check out those links too, Child of C., and will also try to get to an Apple workshop on iLife at the Apple Store in the Yorkdale M all. Your review of it sounded wonderful. Am also wondering now if my G3 would accept that.

Really a lot of great info, and definitely can see a new iMac in my future, but not sure I want the Mini. That looked like you need to supply the monitor and keyboard. But will check it all out at the Store, hopefully on Friday.

Many thanks again for all the input.

[Ottawaman]

ilife '06 system Requirements

Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G4, PowerPC G5, or Intel Core processor; 733MHz or faster for iDVD
256MB of RAM, 512MB recommended
Mac OS X v10.3.9 or v10.4.3 or later; v10.4.4 recommended
iTunes 6.0.2 and QuickTime 7.0.4 (included)
DVD drive for installation
10GB of available disk space

*High-definition video requires 1GHz G4 or faster and 512MB of RAM.
Burning DVDs requires an Apple SuperDrive or compatible third-party DVD burner.

[Ottawaman]

good system requirement chart...
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93634

[Mandy]

Thanks for the link.

Doesnt look like I can install iLife 6 either.

So will start researching for a new iMac and return the upgrade to Compusmart.

The miniMac looks like you have to supply your own monitor and keyboard.

[Child of Cupertino]

If you already have a USB keyboard, mouse and any monitor, you could use what's called a "KVM switch". This allows you to share a keyboard, video display and mouse between two computers with both systems running.

But, I have to ask you what do you use the PC for? Chances are all your needs could be served on a Mac, alone, and you wouldn't have to support two hardware platforms. You also wouldn't live under the fear of viral infection you appear to have -- and is reasonable when using the Windows platform.

[Ottawaman]

If you already have a USB keyboard, mouse and any monitor, you could use what's called a "KVM switch". This allows you to share a keyboard, video display and mouse between two computers with both systems running.

.

I use a KVM on my mini and my pc. It works great.
Soon I won't have to when my new 24" monitor shows up :rah:

[Mandy]

[QUOTE=Child of Cupertino]If you already have a USB keyboard, mouse and any monitor, you could use what's called a "KVM switch". This allows you to share a keyboard, video display and mouse between two computers with both systems running.

But, I have to ask you what do you use the PC for? .../QUOTE]

First, to answer your question Child of C.,I use my laptop for internet surfing and email, my new PC for files, videos, photos and games. Yes, Im very afraid of getting a virus, as I had a nasty experience 2-3 years ago, so wanted to keep my files on a safe computer (not my iMac).

Secondly, I returned my upgrade to Computersmart and apparently they dont take back software. They thot it might have been defective and would replace it, but as all the above posts indicated, that wouldnt be suitable, so they are going to put it as a credit as against getting the MacMini.

Getting the info here on the KVM switch really clinched my decision, as I didnt want another large scale computer. Am very seriously space challenged here now. But can put it next to my new PC as per the attached picture. Was quite impressed by the specs and small size of the MiniMaC, but forgot to really check on the RAM. The spec said 512 which is needed to run video, but on the reader reviews they mentioned that 256 Mhz was a drawback, so want to make sure it has 512 as apparently you cant open this computer.

I will be picking it up sometime next week and can hardly wait to get it installed.

Many thanks for all the input, really invaluable.

ps. funny thing tho, my gift Final Cut Express ended up costing me my (hopeful) tax refund.

Couldnt get the pic to upload, so will try again later.

[Ottawaman]

Hey Mandy, that's great news.

I run final cut pro on my mini and it works. It's a bit slow on the renders, but who cares...plenty of G5s at work.
Just so you know, you can get a KVM for more than 2 computers. Useful if you have 3 or 4 and only 1 monitor.

[Mandy]

Ottawaman, yes, I did some research, but really only need for the new PC (still trying to upload that pic).

Forgot to ask what the price is for this switch and also how does it hook up?

Many thanks again for the info.

[Tim]

wow. You are going to like ilife. There isn't anything on windows that compares.
:)

[Child of Cupertino]

Hey Mandy. I'm offering up a lot of info and insight in these posts that I hope (for your benefit) that you put to good use ;)

The point of my question, Mandy, was to determine if you can leave the Windows platform and all of its woes altogether.

You do:

Email, web surfing, "files" (by that do you mean MS Office files?), videos, photos, games -- and getting viruses ;) Well, a Mac can handle all but the last two (games and viruses) very well! But even with those there are variables regarding the Mac.

There are a lot of disc-based game titles for the Macintosh of all types, but if a person is always looking forward to new titles as they come out, the PC platform will cure their hunger much better. I probably have about twenty game titles and not all of them are the popular games that are indeed available for the Mac. So, our family's gaming needs are for the most part satisfied, but the expectations of what to get next are more like "we'll see what makes it over to the Mac from PC", rather than being able to get a new game title without hesitation if we used PCs.

But, you don't strike me as the "fragging type" who lives for 1st person shooters and the like (who knows? I could be wrong, there! :eek: ). You might be a "SIMS" type -- or play browser-based traditional games online with real people like my sisters do at websites such as http://hoylegames.sierra.com/ or http://www.uproar.com/ (mostly, they play Scrabble at such sites). While there are several SIMS titles available for the Mac, the web-based online games -- or at least the two popular sites I referenced, above -- do no support the Mac.

So, the bottom line about gaming is... that there is no bottom line. Depending on what type of games you play, and depending on your interest in the cutting edge of gaming titles, the Mac platform may serve you, or might warrant a pass in this particular regard. If you want a listing of disc-based game titles, let me know and I can provide you with the URLs.

Another drawback using the Mac is, if you are into using webcams with instant messaging networks, the Mac platform suffers from very uneven support here as well. Although Apple allows users to plug into the AOL network and do webcam/videoconferencing through it, the rest of the IM services have weak or nonexistent webcam support for the Mac. Other than the AOL network (via Apple's own "iChat" instant messaging software) Yahoo supports Macs and that's about it, I believe. Of particular irritation is the fact that Microsoft's Messenger for Mac does not support webcams! There are two shareware programs that I am aware of that strives for MS Messenger webcam support (one is called "Mercury messenger", the other called "aMSN"), but the feature sets are not all there. They're close, and if you are interested in this use hit their respective websites to investigate further.

As for viruses? Well, you can relieve yourself of your paranoia over this almost completely if you used your Mac for all your web and "file" functions. Although there have been little proof-of-concept projects here and there, there has virtually been nothing in the wild rampaging through the Mac user-base. Mac OS X is not bullet-proof, but it is more secure than Windows is. Of most benefit to Mac users, however, is the fact that there are so few of us compared to all of those Windows systems out there (probably over 30,000,000 Macs versus over 300,000,000 PCs) that the virus writers go for the big platform's superior distribution and don't bother with Linux or OS X. personally, I don't use any antivirus software at all. So, you can go about your computing life with little to no concern regarding viruses. The more you used your Mac the more more you'd be comfortable about it as you watch the war rage on "over there" on the Windows platform.

The Mac platform is the safest one to use that still gives you very good to excellent software support -- certainly better than Linux as a desktop solution. Plus, it's easy to use, low maintenance and effective in its functionality. And, for media creation, iLife ROCKS!

So, my suggestion to you is to use your Mac for all that you can do on it (and maybe that could be everything you do) and just use your Windows system for what you need to do on it.

As for software returns, most if not all stores do not take returns on opened software. Reason being is that some people use that as a scam to install the software (or burn copies of the installer disks) and then return it. In your particular case, however, if you were improperly counseled on the software system requirements by their staff, then you have a leg to stand on. A credit is better than nothing.

As for the Mac Mini, your mentioning of the 256MB of RAM in the Mac Mini post suggests to me that it is a Mac Mini with a G4 CPU. If so, that is the previous generation of Mac Minis. The current generation has Intel processors inside. While retailers might be offering "blowout pricing" on the older G4-based Apple products in the presence of Apple's new Intel-based ones (which are the Mac Mini, the iMac and their pro-level "MacBook Pro"), I strongly suggest getting a new Mac Mini -- preferably the upper end model with the Intel "Core Duo" processor. It has a dual-core CPU in it (basically TWO CPUs inside). The new base model has an Intel Core Solo CPU in it and, while probably faster than the G4-based models, the Core Duo model offers a better performance bang for the buck. In fact, over the past six or more months, Apple upped the base RAM in the G4 Mac Minis from 256 to 512MB. So, if they're offering you a G4 Mac Mini with only 256MB of RAM, it's not at all current and might even be a floor model. I have the original base G4 mac Mini, ordered from Apple with the RAM upped to 512MB. It works fine, with the most noticeable problem being the slower laptop class hard drive in it. The Intel-based Mac Minis, while also having "a laptop class drive" has a faster drive as well as a faster system buss speed. Overall, I suggest NOT getting a G4-based one unless you are really strapped for cash and they offer (or you fight for) an awesome deal on it.

Regardless of all of this, you can indeed get into a Mac Mini's housing to add RAM. It's not the easiest procedure, but it is certainly doable.

As no Macs have PS2 ports for old-style PC keyboards and mice, you would need to replace your keyboard and mouse if you have PS2 ones. Logically, you would need a USB-based KVM switch.

If the store is indeed offering you a G4-based Mini and you need USB keyboard and mouse, maybe you can swing a bundle deal? The reality is that, in light of the Intel-based Minis, the store will be motivated to move any remaining G4-based stock OUT. So, they may be willing to play ball. Another thing is to make sure that the Mac Mini they're selling you has a DVDRW drive in it! All base model Minis (both G4 with a single 1.25GHz G4 CPU and base Intel one) come with combo drives! You want a burner in there. The ideal Mini to get would be the current upper-end Mac Mini with the Core Duo CPU, 512MB RAM, 80GB drive and DVDRW. Cost: CAN$949.00.

So, there ya go. Lots of info. As Tim promised, you will love using iLife. I use it on my G4 mac Mini and my work mac all the time. We BLOW people AWAY with what we put out with it. DVD creation is excellent.

Questions?

[Ottawaman]

KVM diagram

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=134809#

Basically, your 2 computers send their monitor cables, mouse and keyboard cables into the kvm box (let's call this IN) x2
Then the kvm has another set of cables, keyboard monitor and mouse that come from OUT of the kvm and attach to your single monitor mouse and keyboard.
To use it you either press a keyboard button combination such as ctrl ctrl 1 or cnrtl cntrl 2 to tell the kvm to switch computers.
Price depends on a few factors, such as number of computer inputs you desire, usb vs standard kvm and brand name.
I would guess you could pick up a kvm for 30-40 dollars.

[Child of Cupertino]

Just came across this review of the Mac Mini (there are many more out there of course):

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/intel_mac_mini_good_at_what_it_does/

Macworld's review:
http://www.macworld.com/topics/hardware/macsystems/desktopmacs/macmini/

And hey, given that like almost every low-end Windows system out there the Mac Mini uses an Intel graphics subsystem that shares the main RAM with the CPU, and given that you want to do a lot of video rendering etc. I suggest you get the Mini direct from Apple, upgraded to 1GB of RAM. Price with RAM upgrade: $1,069.00. I know that's a far cray from the "US$499.00" of the old system, but again that will be an awesome package, tuned to your needs and good for the long haul:

Specifications:
1.66GHz Intel Core Duo
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
80GB Serial ATA drive
Intel GMA950 graphics
SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Mac OS X - U.S. English
iLife '06
Quicken 2006
A couple of games, misc. commercial software like Omni Outliner, and demos for MS Office and Apple's iWork.

Here is some Mac-centric news on some less expensive KVM switches. I don't know if they're GOOD or not, but you can Google reviews of any that might be of interest to you:

http://www.macaddict.com/issues/2005/6/reviews/miniview

http://macworld.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=2840665&search=kvm

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/03/06/iogear/index.php

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/09/13/avocent/index.php

And some miscelanneous info on keyboard mapping for one keybaord to work logically on both Mac and Windows:
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/mac911/2005/10/switch/index.php

And finally, if you need to shop around, here are Ontario's Mac dealers:
http://www.heywoody.com/dealers/

[Ottawaman]

You do good work!

[Child of Cupertino]

When I'm working, you mean??

http://www.procrastination.com/156/images/index_38.gif

[Tim]

if he worked on a windows machine he'd have no time to write such lengthy informative posts.
;)

[Ottawaman]

I hate typing, so it I don't enjoy the effort of creating long replies.

[Child of Cupertino]

if he worked on a windows machine he'd have no time to write such lengthy informative posts.
;)

Regardless, the life of a Mac zealot can at times be LESS productive than that of the harried and embattled Windows user. :hsh: So many souls to save, so little time.

[Tim]

you got into the chocolate covered expresso bean again didn't you...

[Child of Cupertino]

BEANS, GROMIT! BEANS!

And finally, how about a Mac Mini bake-off?

Lookie at how the Core Duo Mini smokes the fastest G4 Mini they put out in iMovie rendering:
http://www.barefeats.com/image06/micd-imo.gif

Core Image, Mandy, are the system-level visual effects within Mac OS X that would be utilized by iMovie, iPhoto and iDVD:
http://www.barefeats.com/image06/micd-ima.gif

And Cinebench is CPU rendering test:
http://www.barefeats.com/image06/micd-cin.gif

Complete tests, here:
http://www.barefeats.com/mincd.html
Make note of the poor gaming scores the Intel integrated graphics chips get compared to the G4's dedicated ATI 32MB graphics card.

Also, make note of the RAM recommendations made on this page:

We recommend matching memory of either two 512MB modules or two 1GB modules. Just booting up the mini and doing nothing else consumes 270MB, so two 256MB modules just doesn't cut it.

So, go for a gig (2x512MB sticks).


(Edited post to correct wrong VRAM spec on G4 Mini)

[Mandy]

Wow. Thanks for all the above info. Will have to read it carefully later, for now want to try to upload my pic again. Here goes.

Success! Some little icon I hadnt pressed.

Anyway, this is my new PC and where I would like to use the switch to attach the 2 computers because this is the most comfortable seating area (plus largest screen) for using the computer any length of time, and the Mini could just fit in to the right.

[Child of Cupertino]

Hey! You can swap the Swiffer box out for the Mac Mini! :D

[Mandy]

[QUOTE=Child of Cupertino], "files" (by that do you mean MS Office files?),... But, you don't strike me as the "fragging type" who lives for 1st person shooters and the like ...

In fact, over the past six or more months, Apple upped the base RAM in the G4 Mac Minis from 256 to 512MB. ..

The ideal Mini to get would be the current upper-end Mac Mini with the Core Duo CPU, 512MB RAM, 80GB drive and DVDRW. Cost: CAN$949.00.QUOTE]

Wow, that is a lot of great info to absorb, and have printed it out so I can go over it more carefully.

As to the "files" these are documents,info, Word files, etc., for various Clubs and Organizations that is really vital to keep safe and while I do have a backup disc, is the reason I moved them all to my new PC which is NOT on the internet. I also moved all my games there too, so for now dont feel like going thro all that again. Incidently, your right, am not into the shoot 'em games (except for one), but have a lot of simulator (and of course all Star Trek), card, etc., but not into internet gaming.

Have been doing some research on the Mac site, plus reviews, and when I go back to Compusmart next week, did decide to get the Core Duo CPU model instead based on all the charts. That does have the 512 RAM so think that will do nicely(altho would have liked more, but there you are). That and getting the switch should do it.

Thanx for the switch info Ottawaman, I came across a diagram from Wikipedia and hope that is what you are talking about. Wasnt able to attach here for some reason, but if you want to see it, will try later.

There is no point to canvassing other stores for maybe a better deal, as my credit is with Compusmart, and yes, I can understand now why they dont take back software returns.

Will be checking out all those links, in fact already came across some already (the Mac site).

As for the Swiffer box, good one there, but no, think it will just fit nicely to the right.

Again, many thanks for all this great input. Much appreciated.

[Child of Cupertino]

Wow, that is a lot of great info to absorb

I know. It's embarrassing :hsh:


As to the "files" these are documents,info, Word files, etc., for various Clubs and Organizations that is really vital to keep safe and while I do have a backup disc, is the reason I moved them all to my new PC which is NOT on the internet.

Well, they'll also be safe on your Mac, too -- even with it connected to the web. You can open text-only Word documents with OS X's "TextEdit" program, Apple's "iWorks" (advanced word processing/graphical page layout and Powerpoint combo -- no spreadsheet yet), Microsoft of course also has Office for the Mac, or there are cheaper or free open source Office alternative that can read/write Office, such as OpenOffice and NeoOffice ( http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html ). The State of maine in the USA has recently awarded a 36,000 notebook contract to Apple for their schools. NeoOffice was included in the bundle, probably saving the state hundreds of thousands of dollars in Microsoft Office licenses ( http://www.state.me.us/mlti/rfp/index.htm )


I also moved all my games there too, so for now dont feel like going thro all that again. Incidently, your right, am not into the shoot 'em games (except for one), but have a lot of simulator (and of course all Star Trek), card, etc., but not into internet gaming.

Love Trek! I'm more the fragging type, myself. I have Star Trek Elite Force II. Lotsa fun for us nerds!

These two companies are the main purveyors of Mac compatible software (among others):
http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/complete/
http://www.macsoftgames.com/

Also, here are Mac gaming sites:
http://www.insidemacgames.com/
http://www.macgamer.com/
http://www.macgamefiles.com/

Is that joystick USB? What kind is it?


Have been doing some research on the Mac site, plus reviews, and when I go back to Compusmart next week, did decide to get the Core Duo CPU model instead based on all the charts. That does have the 512 RAM so think that will do nicely (altho would have liked more, but there you are). That and getting the switch should do it.

Awesome! You'll be good to go. Later, if you want to, you can add a single gig stick or something to the Mini. BTW, did you check out those iLife demonstration movies I gave links to?

http://www.apple.com/ilife/quicktour/

Very nice!


There is no point to canvassing other stores for maybe a better deal, as my credit is with Compusmart

Understood. But it's good to know that there are a decent number of Mac dealers out there. The trouble is, their profit margins are pretty slim on Apple-branded hardware that prices rarely fluctuate. I ran a check for a MacBook Pro last night on almost every GTA dealer's website. Everyone was within $10 of each other except one which was over $50.00 cheaper.


As for the Swiffer box, good one there, but no, think it will just fit nicely to the right.

Absolutely ;)

[Child of Cupertino]

http://tinyurl.com/pp7ml

[Mandy]

Is that joystick USB? What kind is it?

BTW, did you check out those iLife demonstration movies I gave links to?

http://www.apple.com/ilife/quicktour/

Very nice!;)

The Joystick is called Sidewinder Precision Pro 2.0 USB. I havent hooked it up yet to the PC, but used to use it with my previous PC which died suddenly a year ago (and is why I got my Toshiba laptop). I used it with Flight Simulator.

I tried to bring up that iLife quick tour but for some reason, couldnt get into it, so will try again sometime. However, Dotto Tech spent a half hour going thro it with a technician about a week ago, so got a good idea of what its all about.

Have downloaded most of those links, and need to check them out. Plus Google turned up a lot of info which included a very interesting Mac Mini forum.

[Child of Cupertino]

The Joystick is called Sidewinder Precision Pro 2.0 USB.

No direct support frm MS on OS X for this, but try http://www.usboverdrive.com/


I used it with Flight Simulator.

No support from MS on that, too, but there are many other options:

http://www.laminarresearch.com/

http://www.flightgear.org/

http://www.macgamer.com/features/?id=1796

http://www.pure-mac.com/flight.html
Some of the games listed here are "Classic" versions, meaning they run in Mac OS 9 and have not been updated to Mac OS X. This brings up an important point about the new MacIntels: they do not support mac OS 9 emulation. They can, hjowever, run PowerPC versions of Mac OS X applciations. SO, if there is any other software functionality beyond iMovie that you have used on your iMac in OS 9 that you still might need, consult the following pages for OS X support or research options:

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

http://guide.apple.com/


I tried to bring up that iLife quick tour but for some reason, couldnt get into it, so will try again sometime.

Do you have a recent version of Quicktime installed on your PC?


However, Dotto Tech spent a half hour going thro it with a technician about a week ago, so got a good idea of what its all about.

GO DOTTO! Can't recall the last time Les had Mac content on TCM :ngf: Maybe that's why Dotto's show is national? :p

[Ottawaman]

Hey Mandy,
Best Buy has the mac mini(old model) in the flyer this week and it's discounted. -$129=$499

[Child of Cupertino]

Wow! Great deal. I could live with the PPC-based one at that price (I already live happily with the 1.25GHz one, as do you IIRC).

Something strange about those specs, however: it's the faster PPC model of the two Apple offered, got the right drive capacity for that model (1.25GHz had a 40GB drive), the right RAM amount from the feature-tweak Apple did a few months before the Macintel version came out -- but it has a Combo drive! I thought the top-end models always had a DVDRW?? (which Mandy needs, BTW). Strange. Could it be a typo?? make sure, mandy, that you're getting a Mini with a DVDRW.

Mac Mini specs are here:
http://www.lowendmac.com/mini/minis.html

[Ottawaman]

the 17" has $600 off, its $2,399.95
Mac G5 20" iSight is also cheap - $1598.97

new model(s) arriving april 1st?

[Ottawaman]

remember to look for the secret upgrade mini,
1.5Ghz G4 Mac minis while still packaged in 1.42Ghz boxes. The system profiler shows the video card as a 64MB VRAM Radeon 9200, and an Dual-Layer 8x SuperDrive.

[Child of Cupertino]

Tough to ask to open the box and check for those specs at the store before you buy. Check out the retailer's return policy. They might have a "no questions asked" policy, or one can concoct a reason.

[Ottawaman]

It's like a box of mixed chocolates. Take a bite, if you don't like it, put it back and take another. ;)

[Ottawaman]

go to this site....
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html
enter the serial number and it will give you a report.

My mini box indicates the serial number on the outside
So ask to use a internet enabled machine and check it out before you plunk down your cash.
Ask for a different box until you find one.