Bell controls your DSL no matter what! [Archive]

Bogie

08-28-2005, 07:40 PM

Athlon2600Plus

08-28-2005, 09:17 PM

Get cable

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 06:08 AM

Get cable

Yeah and more problems :rolleyes:

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 06:12 AM

Well, my DSL is down again, and Ma Bell is the source of the problem.

Apparently they had another crash today, somewhere, and they are busy trying to get everybody back connected to whatever DSL provider they use.

Last chat with my ISP said that "Bell says" that 80% are back online/reconnected, and the rest by later tonight.

Soooo, I'm back on dialup.

Down for the night, I guess. Time to relax a bit more. Was away for 2 days, so a bit more won't hurt :d

More then likely your DSL company either rents/purchased the DSL lines from Bell. Its unfortunate that your haveing trouble because of it, my sympatico is working fine.

I remember a couple of years ago when we all got the speed increase from Bell I noticed alot of the smaller companies also got increases.

Eventually they will increase the 3mb service when Rogers increases theirs.

Bogie

08-29-2005, 06:41 AM

Get cable? You have to be kidding! I went to DSL because of cable headacahes.

I have a 3mbit DSL line through Vif.net ..... only challenges are when Bell has issues, like now. This happened about a week ago, and some Sympatico customers had problems too. When Bell has equipment problems/breakdowns it is not client specific -just depends on what is connected to that equipment.

BTW - still down on the high-speed. Still on dial-up.

tweakthis

08-29-2005, 07:55 AM

I'll take cable over DSL anyday! I had sympatico hi-speed lite and was hit with constant overcharges. I was prepared to upgrade to high speed but it isn't offered in my aresa. I went to Rogers lite and haven't had a problem since. My daughter noticed a big change in the speed as well. She's able to play her online games with no problem.

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 08:00 AM

Exmortis

08-29-2005, 08:07 AM

I only have one cable coming into my house now. It was a great pleasure so walk out to the grey box outside and completely disconnect Bell from my house. No more Bell for me! :D

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 08:26 AM

I only have one cable coming into my house now. It was a great pleasure so walk out to the grey box outside and completely disconnect Bell from my house. No more Bell for me! :D

I felt the same about Rogers :) I still LOVE the fact of how they stung me for $144.00 after I cancelled and I cancelled way before my next billing date

NOT!

And after being loyal to them for 18 years.

Exmortis

08-29-2005, 08:29 AM

How ironic! Bell stung me for $50 after canceling ExpressVu (a canceling fee, they said). :) Oh, they chased me for that $50 too... He he he

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 08:32 AM

LOL You to? I did get a credit for that over billing but it really left a sour taste in my mouth when Rogers did that to me I think thats poor service when they do something like that.

Athlon2600Plus

08-29-2005, 10:16 AM

I have rogers cable and have had no issues whatsoever! My mom has bell and had so many issues she went to cable , and to this date as never had any times where she could not get online and loves it

Athlon2600Plus

08-29-2005, 10:20 AM

As far as bell phoen goes i switched over to sprint real fast as when i moved into an apartment I am substidized which is so sweet, the organization who got me this nice paartment, made a mistake in the apartment unit, I had called bell the a week prior with the information they had giving me and sorted my phoen trasfer. make a long story short the organization called me the night before my move apolioging that they made this mistake , i then contacked bell right away explained the situation and they doubled charged my starup connection even though it was not my fault . Needless to say i was not impressed. I had no issues with my transfering of my internet with rogers , they realized the mistake was nto mien and they dont charge anyways for when you move least not that i am aware of.

reiver

08-29-2005, 10:31 AM

What, no Look TV horror stories? ;)

Mouse

08-29-2005, 10:32 AM

Nope, not from me.

Don't have it.

Yet.

Bogie

08-29-2005, 10:57 AM

LookTV ... LOL. I'm too close to the local tower. If the tower fell (CKVR - A Channel Barrie) it would most likely hit my house. LookTV tried to install here, but had to give up because I was too close and too low. Just can't win.

re: DSL
The most frustrating part is that no matter which ISP you use, it still gets routed through the local Bell CO and their system. Your non-Bell ISP is at their mercy.

I have had much fewer problems with my DSL with VIF than the mountain of problems that I experienced with Shaw/Rogers previous.

I need to access alternative SMTP servers - can't with Rogers/cable. I have a small local server for business file transfers and testing purposes - can't with Rogers/cable.

I'm not worried about caps, as I would never reach them. So caps are not an issue.

I pay $28.95/mo for a 3mbit line with no restrictions, and also get unlimited dial-up in case of times like this "Bell routing" issue - but then, when I use dial-up it ties up my phone line.

Exmortis

08-29-2005, 11:02 AM

I need to access alternative SMTP servers - can't with Rogers/cable.

What's wrong with using Rogers' SMTP server? If you run your own, just make it relay instead of using point-to-point connections. Works very best as I've been doing this for years.

Bogie

08-29-2005, 11:15 AM

What's wrong with using Rogers' SMTP server? If you run your own, just make it relay instead of using point-to-point connections. Works very best as I've been doing this for years.
Had too many times where Rogers SMTP was down, even though Internet access was working. And, occassionally, they would reject certain attachments that I was trying to send (format, size, etc.). As I am online all day, conducting business, email is too critical for interuptions.

One of the 3 hats that I wear is that of a webhost, and have my own servers located in New Jersey and Los Angeles. I have many SMTP servers available to me under many domains that I personally own. I also do my own email marketing (permission-based) to about 22000 email addresses, every 2 or 3 weeks, via my own local mail server. Also do it for a few clients on a lesser basis.

I have considered the extra "business" cost of adding cable as a backup option, but reluctant to do so. Every penny counts, and Rogers is a lot of pennies to "add-on" just for backup.

Exmortis

08-29-2005, 11:20 AM

Had too many times where Rogers SMTP was down, even though Internet access was working. And, occassionally, they would reject certain attachments that I was trying to send (format, size, etc.). As I am online all day, conducting business, email is too critical for interuptions.

Wow.. Don't know what to tell you except that I've been running my own family email server for 5 years now. Never had issues of a down Rogers SMTP server and definitely never lost an attachment that Rogers rejected. It's very odd what you're reporting because I am definitely not getting the same.

Bogie

08-29-2005, 11:33 AM

Maybe it is different in the Barrie area (old Shaw territory).

Finally, back online with highspeed .... being on dial-up makes you appreciate highspeed even more :d

reiver

08-29-2005, 11:49 AM

The entire province does not connect to one Rogers SMTP server so your mileage may vary depending on your location...

Mike

08-29-2005, 02:38 PM

You just have to remember that hardware fails and I know that the smaller ISPs provide their own switches and equipment to provide the bandwidth which is out of Bell's control. I use Bell but i'm lucky that my email accounts use SSL and Bell doesn't block it so I can use other SMTP servers.

Bogie

08-29-2005, 03:14 PM

You just have to remember that hardware fails and I know that the smaller ISPs provide their own switches and equipment to provide the bandwidth which is out of Bell's control.MY ISP has only had one equipment failure (switch) since I've been with them, one "move of equipment to a new location" (minimal downtime), and the rest has always been Bell's equipment failure.

I use Bell but i'm lucky that my email accounts use SSL and Bell doesn't block it so I can use other SMTP servers.Have certs for a few of my email addys, Comodo (http://www.comodogroup.com) supplies free certs for personal use also, but many times I have to test email accounts for clients using their domain account SMTP. Just not practical that way.

Chrispy

08-29-2005, 05:07 PM

Go ahead if you want to have constant outages I waited for 6 months for rogers to fix something then they went and closed the ticket because their "techs" couldnt find anything wrong, yeah right I think they are on crack .....meanwhile my speeds were no better then dialup, atleast with sympatico my speeds are consistant

If I wanted dialup I would have went with dialup provider

Rogers Cable is NO MORE here.

I understand/respect your opinion here, however I think it's very closed minded to apply a generalization to Cable all together. Some people will have superior Rogers service and inferior Bell service in their area, while others will have the opposite....

Best thing to do is if possible take advantage of introductory promotions that lack any sort of commitment, and then stick with whichever service performed the best.

Larger companies whether it be Bell, Rogers, Telus, etc...are equally as capable of making mistakes. Of course, whichever company made the mistake to you will be the one you will forever have a sour taste with....doesn't make any one necessarily better than the other.

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 05:18 PM

I understand/respect your opinion here, however I think it's very closed minded to apply a generalization to Cable all together. Some people will have superior Rogers service and inferior Bell service in their area, while others will have the opposite....

Best thing to do is if possible take advantage of introductory promotions that lack any sort of commitment, and then stick with whichever service performed the best.

Larger companies whether it be Bell, Rogers, Telus, etc...are equally as capable of making mistakes. Of course, whichever company made the mistake to you will be the one you will forever have a sour taste with....doesn't make any one necessarily better than the other.

No I wasn't saying that ALL cable companies are like that I was mearly pointing out one ROGERS. And the bad experience I had with them

When I called them to cancel my service I specifically wanted it cancelled on that day that I called .......I never expected them to cancel it on the day they came to pickup their equipment ( which was already in the next billing period) I also volunteered to drop off the equipment to Rogers

And then I was stuck paying a huge Bill because someone at the office made a Big mistake

Thanks for the offer Chrispy much appreciated, but I highly doubt I will :)

Dr.Dan

08-29-2005, 06:14 PM

Bogie

08-29-2005, 06:20 PM

Bogie, was all these problems you had back when Rogers was with @HOME?
What you're saying sounds like the typical problems from back then...

But now it's a whole different ball game... ;)

But I'm a firm believer in 'use what works for you'.
If you're happy with your ISP; stay with them :)
I hung in there for awhile after the change. Actually it got worse than with Shaw. When I first went on with Shaw it was great, here in Barrie. Everybody was complaining elsewhere, but Barrie was great. Then Rogers came in. Service almost dropped immediately. Connections became up and down. Even went to Ultra when it came out. Problems continued.

Finally had enough, switched to Sympatico. It was OK for awhile, then it got as bad as Rogers. Switched to VIF for my DSL and have been a very happy camper until these 2 recent Bell related interuptions.

Having unlimited dial-up with VIF fills in the gap. They don't have a local Barrie access number, but I am on the Sprint landline service and 416 is a local call from Barrie. VIF has a 416 access number.

Ironic when you think of it. Bell and Rogers have you coming and going. I have Sprint landline. Sprint is owned by Rogers. Physical landlines are owned by Bell. Weird marriage!

I can't get LookTV for my TV because I'm too close to the tower. I have Rogers cellphone service and digital cable TV.

Swordfish

08-29-2005, 06:35 PM

I hung in there for awhile after the change. Actually it got worse than with Shaw. When I first went on with Shaw it was great, here in Barrie. Everybody was complaining elsewhere, but Barrie was great. Then Rogers came in. Service almost dropped immediately. Connections became up and down. Even went to Ultra when it came out. Problems continued.

Finally had enough, switched to Sympatico. It was OK for awhile, then it got as bad as Rogers. Switched to VIF for my DSL and have been a very happy camper until these 2 recent Bell related interuptions.

Having unlimited dial-up with VIF fills in the gap. They don't have a local Barrie access number, but I am on the Sprint landline service and 416 is a local call from Barrie. VIF has a 416 access number.

Ironic when you think of it. Bell and Rogers have you coming and going. I have Sprint landline. Sprint is owned by Rogers. Physical landlines are owned by Bell. Weird marriage!

I can't get LookTV for my TV because I'm too close to the tower. I have Rogers cellphone service and digital cable TV.

A friend of mine once told me, and she said " Why leave one poison to go to another?"

Oh the days of dialup were so much simpler eh?

Dr.Dan

08-29-2005, 06:36 PM

Ahh... right... the old Shaw area really got the short end of the stick when Rogers took over.
Allot of those areas are working properly now; but some STILL aren't

Yes, no matter what, you're dealing with Rogers, Bell, or both in one way or another :nde:

Bogie

08-29-2005, 07:56 PM

After reading over Rogers/Sprint website .... can you see it coming? Can ya?

Not hard to see why Bell is worried about Rogers!

Rogers Home Phone can be delivered in two ways: through Rogers’ advanced cable network or through traditional phone wires. The way you are connected primarily depends on whether you live in an area currently being served by the Rogers Cable network or not.

Within the territory served by Rogers cable, we will begin to sell home telephone through the Rogers Cable network on July 1st. We will continue to sell local phone services through phone wires in all regions previously served by Sprint Canada.

Now .... Rogers/Sprint is pushing consumers towards their "new", cable-driven, Home Phone service, if cable is available to the consumer. This means no telephone lines required. No option to switch to DSL as an Internet provider. One stop shop - all Rogers: Phone, Cable TV, Internet .. all delivered through the existing cable connection. Might as well go for Gold and get the cell also.

This is becoming a larger "potential" monopoly that can be imagined.

New housing development. Cable preinstalled and ready for hook-up. Good sales pitch by Rogers to new home owner. Attractive (relatively) package of all-in-one. No Bell line - no alternative for the Internet connectivity.

Rogers has Sprint to also take care of traditional home phones in rural, non-cable areas. Covers all possible scenarios.

I admire the marketing, but hate the overall picture.

Chrispy

08-30-2005, 12:55 AM

One little point, DSL is compatible with the Cable version of Rogers Home Phone. You just have to inform Sympatico, and they will verify compatibity of your current DSL modem and if necessary will swap it out free of charge (they have to do so). There is also some other technical information which must be relayed to Bell which the Rogers Home Phone technician takes not of during the installation process.

Walter

08-30-2005, 04:15 AM

Sympatico Rules....at least in my case. I think I remember one outage, maybe two, in the years I have used Sympatico now if they would reduce the price a little I would be a happy person.

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 06:26 AM

Sympatico Rules....at least in my case. I think I remember one outage, maybe two, in the years I have used Sympatico now if they would reduce the price a little I would be a happy person.

Hey Walter, if you have one or more services from Bell you can get that Bundled on your Bell One Bill and save $5.00 off each service ( excludeing your land line) I have my sympatico & ExpressVu bundled what I like about it is, I pay it all at once and its done.

I also look at it this way, more money for timmies :hst:

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 06:28 AM

Bogie

08-30-2005, 07:22 AM

Yeah My parrents have Rogers home phone and sympatico and have no problems at all otherwise they'd be calling
Sometimes I tend to think I'm their 24hr tech :rolleyes: ;)
Purely out of curiosity of the technology involved, but how does DSL work with Rogers Cable Home Phone? DSL does have it's limitations, due to distance before a CO. How does Rogers "Cable" Home Phone enable the use of DSL?

The mixing of technologies is interesting, but understanding "why" and "how" is a "must know" for any of us involved in the tech support industry. Not looking for guesses here, but factual information.

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 07:32 AM

Purely out of curiosity of the technology involved, but how does DSL work with Rogers Cable Home Phone? DSL does have it's limitations, due to distance before a CO. How does Rogers "Cable" Home Phone enable the use of DSL?

The mixing of technologies is interesting, but understanding "why" and "how" is a "must know" for any of us involved in the tech support industry. Not looking for guesses here, but factual information.

It works the same as your home phone from Bell . from what I understand Rogers bought sprint ( back in the summer) and the lines you are using I believe Sprint was Purchased/Renting from Bell.

You still keep the same phone number and it dosnt go through your cable

As far as the sympatico goes, they have a basic connection which they just use for e-mail and they have no problems Surfing or downloading files its still really consistant, Cuz the are only half a block from the CO

Bogie

08-30-2005, 07:56 AM

It works the same as your home phone from Bell . from what I understand Rogers bought sprint ( back in the summer) and the lines you are using I believe Sprint was Purchased/Renting from Bell.

You still keep the same phone number and it dosnt go through your cable

As far as the sympatico goes, they have a basic connection which they just use for e-mail and they have no problems Surfing or downloading files its still really consistant, Cuz the are only half a block from the CO
This makes more sense. Then it is NOT the Rogers Cable-driven (VoIP-related) Home Phone , but rather the telephone line Sprint service - correct? Same as what I have.

This is where much confusion is arising, and, I am sure, a planned marketing "confusion" created by Rogers.

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 08:06 AM

This makes more sense. Then it is NOT the Rogers Cable-driven (VoIP-related) Home Phone , but rather the telephone line Sprint service - correct? Same as what I have.

This is where much confusion is arising, and, I am sure, a planned marketing "confusion" created by Rogers.

Correct exact same thing as you have. I think with the Voip thing they will be usuing the cable lines for that seperate from the home phone , allthough I need to do some more reading on the Rogers Voip.

I think Bell is launching theirs in the K-W area next month.

Dr.Dan

08-30-2005, 08:12 AM

But look back Bogie... it was Chrispy that said that DSL works on Rogers Cable Home Phone...
So, I hope he has enough details on how this works to enlighten us... it sounds very interesting :)

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 08:18 AM

Bogie

08-30-2005, 08:21 AM

But look back Bogie... it was Chrispy that said that DSL works on Rogers Cable Home Phone...
So, I hope he has enough details on how this works to enlighten us... it sounds very interesting :)It would be interesting, because I cannot see how it would work - 2 different technologies are involved. I think there is massive confusion here between the two(2) versions of the Rogers/Sprint HOME PHONE service. One is traditional (Sprint) and the other is based on VoIP (Rogers cable). Rogers and Sprint both calling their telephony "HOME PHONE" can do nothing but create confusion, misunderstanding, and simply more business for Rogers overall.

I am sure Rogers purpose is to totally confuse the marketplace over this.

Sympatico has had to "go with the flow" and allow Sympatico DSL connections over non-Bell connections, but, it is on traditional telephone line service (for example, Sprint's tradiotional Home Phone service - non-cable), and is routed through Bell's CO.

Bogie

08-30-2005, 08:24 AM

Yeah because Rogers Cable home phone goes through Sprint which allready had lines they were usuing from Bell
:)BUT, DSL requires a CO within 4.5 kms of the customer's connection - as the wire goes (not as the crow flies). How would Roger's overcome that obstacle?

Bogie

08-30-2005, 08:31 AM

It would be interesting to know the complete truth, and nothing but the truth, about how Rogers Home Phone (via cable) works. How much is Bell equipment involved? How much is Sprint involved? Could it exist without Bell?

There is much confusion, as I stated before, on purpose, to confuse the consumer.

If a call is placed on Rogers Cable Home Phone, how is it routed, and the map of the route? At what point (where) does your Rogers Cable Home Phone "call" leave the Rogers service and become traditional landline? It has to at some point, as logic dictates that - unless it is a Rogers to Rogers call, on cable Home Phone (... or does it? Rogers Cable Barrie to Rogers Cable Ottawa - all via cable?)

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 08:34 AM

One little point, DSL is compatible with the Cable version of Rogers Home Phone.

This doesn't make sense. DSL and Rogers Home Phone use two totally different kind of wires. How can they possibly be compatible one to the other? For one thing, Rogers Home Phone works only on cable. Rogers will not offer this service over the Internet like conventional VoIP providers so you simply cannot get that service over DSL.

So can you clarify your point?

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 08:37 AM

Yeah because Rogers Cable home phone goes through Sprint which allready had lines they were usuing from Bell

That's for local analog phone service competition. Does not relate to Rogers Home Phone. But even there, they have to lease lines and equipment from Bell. After all, there's only one phone line coming into your home and it's from Bell.

Rogers may use Sprint wherever possible for calls with an end-point outside of the Rogers phone network, but it's totally unrelated to DSL.

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 08:40 AM

BUT, DSL requires a CO within 4.5 kms of the customer's connection - as the wire goes (not as the crow flies). How would Roger's overcome that obstacle?

It will still work, regardless, the further the distance from the CO the more the speed degrades so if they are further away they may either get 3mbs or only 1.5 megs even though they maybe in the 3mb profile

Thats why Ultra wont work at this end of town because of the distance issue allthough I am in the 3mb profile and my lines are good.

even with the 5mb and 6mb upgrade it was only avaliable to select members.

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 08:41 AM

That's for local analog phone service competition. Does not relate to Rogers Home Phone. But even there, they have to lease lines and equipment from Bell. After all, there's only one phone line coming into your home and it's from Bell.

Rogers may use Sprint wherever possible for calls with an end-point outside of the Rogers phone network, but it's totally unrelated to DSL.

Interesting thanks Exmortis :)

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 08:53 AM

unless it is a Rogers to Rogers call, on cable Home Phone (... or does it? Rogers Cable Barrie to Rogers Cable Ottawa - all via cable?)

A Rogers to Rogers call does not necessarely imply that it all stays within the Rogers network and no real long distance fees apply. :) Many areas served by Rogers were operated by another company before (i.e. Shaw, Fundy Cable, etc) and were built to use much different technologies.

For instance, New-Brunswick's cable network were 100% built on Motorolla equipment so their digital cable uses Motorolla receivers. As for us, we're all Scientific Atlanta.

But yes, in most cases, the call will have to transfer over to analog lines if one end-point isn't on the Rogers network. Calls often switch from analog to digital to analog several times along the way depending on the equipment, if one end-point is on VoIP, etc. This is one layer of complexity I prefer not to bang my head on too much. If I pickup the receiver and I hear a dial tone, that's all I need to know. :)

Dr.Dan

08-30-2005, 09:05 AM

I don't understand where the confusion is...
there's Roger Cable 'Home Phone' service (VoIP type service), and there's the Rogers / Sprint 'Home Phone' service (POTS).

Now if DSL does work over Roger Cable 'Home Phone' service, it would mean that Rogers has it channeled within their cable phone to do so.
It's going out of your house and to the closest node, from there it's all in fibre to the head end.
From there they can do whatever they want with it... including be set up into a Bell C.O. for DSL access.

So I can see how it would work if Rogers has channeled it... the question remains... did they?

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 09:09 AM

Now if DSL does work over Roger Cable 'Home Phone' service

This is the statement that doesn't make sense. How can they and Why would they have DSL over Cable? What's the point of this?

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 09:10 AM

I just had a brain fart. I think I am just going to keep my Bell line this Whole Voip thing is really confusing.

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 09:12 AM

Swordfish

08-30-2005, 09:16 AM

Bingo! You got it Exmortis lol

Bogie

08-30-2005, 09:38 AM

Oh wait... I get it now. Took me a minute to think about it.
So you still have TWO wires coming into your home, but at one point, the Rogers Home Phone modem merges with the incoming DSL line so both the phone signal AND DSL signal are over your home phone network wires.
I get it now. And yes, they do that. You do not have to have Rogers highspeed service to have their Home phone service. And yes, it's compatible with DSL.
It's all clear now! :)
BUT, in your explanation, you still need to use the Bell lines to accomplish this. It cannot be done solely via cable.

I don't see where this is "all clear".

Are you saying that you can have your Rogers "Home Phone" hooked up to both your cable and traditional phone lines? I know that they offer both services (Rogers/Sprint), but not as a "unit" in one offering.

Let's fully clarify this, and this is where Rogers has created the mass confusion over their phone services.

Rogers "Home Phone" is via cable.
Sprint "Home Phone" is via traditional phone lines.
Rogers, best guess, will eliminate the Sprint name from the picture to add even more confusion.
Rogers will be known as a telephone/communication company, and Rogers will decide if you get cable or telephone line "Home Phone", based on availability. They imply this by their website statement.
They will steer as many as possible to their "cable" phone service. This will be to eliminate traditional phone lines as much as possible, eventually.
DSL, through another provider, is only available if you have the Sprint version of the "Home Phone", which is, in essence, the same as a Bell connection.
I do not see how, or why, Rogers would set-up their cable "Home Phone" to handle 3rd party DSL connections. Makes no sense.

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 09:44 AM

BUT, in your explanation, you still need to use the Bell lines to accomplish this. It cannot be done solely via cable.

Yes, simply because DSL can only come from the Bell lines. As I said, you do not have to have Rogers Highspeed Internet to get their Cable Home Phone service. You can still have Sympatico DSL if you want and it won't cause any problems.

However, your DSL modem in your house is plugged to the phone jack. Now, if you have Rogers Cable Home Phone service in your home, how's the DSL signal supposed to get to your modem? The answer is that the Rogers Cable Home Phone modem in your basement (at the junction box of all your phone wires in your home) also takes the Bell line coming from outside to route the DSL signal to your home wires.

That's exactly what Chrispy meant when he mentioned DSL compatibility.

Bogie

08-30-2005, 09:52 AM

Yes, simply because DSL can only come from the Bell lines. As I said, you do not have to have Rogers Highspeed Internet to get their Cable Home Phone service. You can still have Sympatico DSL if you want and it won't cause any problems.

However, your DSL modem in your house is plugged to the phone jack. Now, if you have Rogers Cable Home Phone service in your home, how's the DSL signal supposed to get to your modem? The answer is that the Rogers Cable Home Phone modem in your basement (at the junction box of all your phone wires in your home) also takes the Bell line coming from outside to route the DSL signal to your home wires.

That's exactly what Chrispy meant when he mentioned DSL compatibility.
In other words, nothing to do with Rogers, at all, except for a "splitter" modem. Previous postings were implying 3rd party DSL available via Rogers Home Phone service.

Like the Clarica commercial - "clarity" was required :d

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 09:59 AM

Not really related, ya. All it does is route the two extra wires of the incoming Bell line and connec them to the two unused wires (normally reserved for DSL) of your house. The rest (first two wires) are used for home phone. In fact, the modem may not be doing any merging at all. It may just be the technician doing re-wiring.

However, I don't know why Chrispy mentioned modem upgrades and info to get from Sympatico. All that needs to be done is to route wires 3 and 4 from the incoming Bell line to either all jacks in your house (where you'll still need the filters) or to that one jack where your modem is (and therefore remove the need of filters on the other jacks).

At least, I assume that's what he was refering to...

Bogie

08-30-2005, 10:06 AM

I have heard that Bell has a non-phone connection available, so that DSL may be used without a working phone service. Is this available only for Sympatico users, or does Bell have to provide this service on-demand to any customer? After all, if you have Rogers Home Phone via cable, why have Bell's service also just because you want to retain your DSL service?

And, if the customer is using Sprint, instead of Bell (just adding some confusion here), is this option available from Sprint?

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 10:09 AM

Bogie

08-30-2005, 10:29 AM

You can have Naked DSL. I was told Bell removed the extra fee they were once charging for DSL service without phone, but they did that very silently. Better check with them first. But even if you use Sprint, your DSL service is from Bell.
LOL ... now, many people reading all of this, will be totally confused.

Anything, via traditional phone lines, has to pass through Bell's hands at some point in the process, regardless of whatever service is being used.

BUT the term "Bell's DSL service" does not mean Sympatico or Bellnet. There are "layers" of communication technology involved. The utmost major "layer" is Bell (as far as this part of Canada is concerned).

I use Sprint, for example, for my landline service. When I switched to them I lost my DSL connection (ignorance on the part of the Sprint sales/CS was the cause). Eventually (same day, after persistence), with the help of my DSL provider (VIF) I was able to find out that I needed a Sprint routing string (not called "routing", but means the same thing) to re-enable my DSL connection to VIF. VIF needed that string to connect to Sprint to reach me. I am still not too clear on what Sprint equipment is involved, but my connection speed did drop after the transition (was 3.2 and now is about 2.5).

My ideal situation would be to switch my home office phone line back to Bell and go "Naked DSL", and use only my VoIP line for telephone. A big kink in my "communication" network, as I cannot retain my existing phone number in my area. So, I cannot do that ( was Ok for my home phone, as it was unlisted anyway). My traditional home office phone line and VoIP combo is still saving me $$, so I can put up with that.

But I am sure many would like to know their options, in detail, for telephone services.

Besides Bell, I am sure DSL and dial-up providers are very concerned over Rogers foray into the telephone business. As far as costs go, Rogers is not that great a deal. A "sit down" cost comparison will show that Rogers is not the least expensive, but good marketing on Rogers part will capture a lot of the consumer marketplace by using "one-stop shopping" logic..

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 10:41 AM

BUT the term "Bell's DSL service" does not mean Sympatico or Bellnet.

Isn't that what I said? I talked about DSL service, not Internet service. Even if you use VIF as your ISP, the DSL service is from Bell still. I did say "your DSL service is from Bell" which is true.

Anyway, I was talking about the physical wiring done at your home. Your technical issue in the configuration is a seperate one between all the providers used in your case. You can have naked DSL service in your house without going through Sympatico, but I'm sure it's more complicated to get going with the hoops to jump through.

Chrispy

08-30-2005, 10:52 AM

In Response to Exmortis, yeah, you pretty much got what I said. It's compatible with the Cable version not in that DSL traffic would go over the cable wires, but simply due to the nature that there is Naked DSL available now.

With the Cable version of Rogers Home Phone, it has NOTHING to do with Bell whatsoever. It doesn't use any of Bell's wiring it's all Rogers. The Sprint version (customers outside of the GTA would have this) is different, and well is no different than Bell's service, except for the name.

If you have DSL and are getting the Rogers Home Version (Cable Version), the technician connects the Rogers Home Phone terminal to the cable network, but leaves the existing bell wire connected (as a naked connection for internet only)....

That's what I meant :)

Bogie

08-30-2005, 10:59 AM

Isn't that what I said? I talked about DSL service, not Internet service. Yes, but I am trying to clarify for those who are less 'technical" or "Internet savvy". One of the challenges to any tech support is clarity, and explaining things to a "normal" user who knows nothing about the technical aspects. LOL, so many hardly know how to turn on their computer and access the net in the first place. This is what Rogers will be taking advantage of.

Even if you use VIF as your ISP, the DSL service is from Bell still. I did say "your DSL service is from Bell" which is true.Again "DSL service" to most people would mean "Sympatico" when you mention Bell. This "Bell DSL service" is not necessarily the ISP that a person pays for their Internet "service".

Anyway, I was talking about the physical wiring done at your home. Your technical issue in the configuration is a seperate one between all the providers used in your case. You can have naked DSL service in your house without going through Sympatico, but I'm sure it's more complicated to get going with the hoops to jump through.This is why I mention confusion and Rogers new "advantage" in marketing. "Let us consolidate" your Cable TV, Telephone, Internet connectivity, and Cellphone, into one simple "easy-to-manage" bill, and one place to call for service.

You'll never know what hit you :d

We are turning into a society of one-stop-shoppers. Go to Wal-Mart and get clothes, groceries, electronics, music, garden supplies, photo services, auto service, lunch at MacDonalds, and more.

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 11:04 AM

We are turning into a society of one-stop-shoppers.

Or we could be turning into a "one cable for everything" society. Where you have one company taking care of the cables and signal coming in and multiple companies concentrated in offering different services and many competing with each other. In Bell's case, they are more and more morphing into that role and if deregulation is ever imposed on Rogers just like the CRTC did to Bell, expect the same to happen to them.

And what that... complexity galore!!! :)

Bogie

08-30-2005, 11:07 AM

.... and if deregulation is ever imposed on Rogers just like the CRTC did to Bell, expect the same to happen to them.Is Rogers regulated? If so, to what degree?

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 11:09 AM

Is Rogers regulated? If so, to what degree?

They are regulated as a cable TV provider, but they also have complete and total control of their network and cables. I probably chose the wrong word, but they are closed. Not open like Bell was forced to be. However, eventually, I can see the same happening to Rogers.

Bogie

08-30-2005, 11:23 AM

They are regulated as a cable TV provider, but they also have complete and total control of their network and cables. I probably chose the wrong word, but they are closed. Not open like Bell was forced to be. However, eventually, I can see the same happening to Rogers.That won't be easy. When Bell was regulated, it was easier for governments to impose their controls. We now live in a more open society and proving that Rogers has a monopoly would be very hard. Look at MS and it's various court battles. They are not the only cable company available in Ontario. And in some locations you might have a cable option (like around some parts of Ottawa/Hull, I think). I was really surprised when the CRTC allowed the Shaw/Rogers deal to go through.

I am also curious as to how much Bell receives for routing all this traffic for telephone connectivity. Bell still controls all those physical lines and the mass majority of home and business phone services. Does this change the Bell profitability, or just the business model?

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 11:30 AM

Bell still controls all those physical lines

They do and for this, they were forced to open their network to competition. As a local phone and long distance provider, they had a monopolistic access to the wires and were also using unfair practices to make it impossible for competition to work. VoIP providers have had it really hard in this country for many years until Bell was forced to sell blocks of phone numbers at a reasonable price.

The same could be imposed on Rogers to allow competition on cable. Why can't there be a choice of ISPs for cable Internet? Easy, Rogers won't allow it. And they won't because they can. You may have an option for cable TV in Ottawa/Hull, but there's only one company owning the cable coming into your home. If that option is the result of a special agreement between the companies, see if that applies for any other TV providers that would like to start and use the cable. I bet they'll be shut out. Simply because it's not freely open to any start up companies.

Bogie

08-30-2005, 11:34 AM

You may have an option for cable TV in Ottawa/Hull, but there's only one company owning the cable coming into your home. If that option is the result of a special agreement between the companies, see if that applies for any other TV providers that would like to start and use the cable. I bet they'll be shut out. Simply because it's not freely open to any start up companies.
I am not fully sure on this, but I don't believe that the cable companies share the line. Each has their own cable line system running into homes. I also don't know if this still exists in that area. But I do remember having a choice for cable installation, in certain areas in the Ottawa/Hull area.

Exmortis

08-30-2005, 11:39 AM

Ahhh... Multiple cables running in the area. Well, that of course is okay, but very pricey for a starting company. I was referring to a "everything on one cable" system with competition. Bell is already going that route. Now we just need VDSL, but I doubt that will fly very well...

reiver

08-30-2005, 11:47 AM

I'll convert to a "one cable" scenario into my house, when that cable it a big fat fibreoptic line. ;)

Mike

08-31-2005, 06:26 PM

You can have Naked DSL. I was told Bell removed the extra fee they were once charging for DSL service without phone, but they did that very silently. Better check with them first. But even if you use Sprint, your DSL service is from Bell.

I must clear this up. You can get any DSL provider if you use Bell or Sprint as your phone provider. If you have Bell Sympatico, the service is entirely operated by Sympatico (a division of Bell Canada) but the bandwidth is supplied by Bell Canada's fiber optic backbone. If you are with another ISP, for example, VIF then your connection goes through Bell's central office but after that it's routed to VIF's chosen bandwidth provider, it may be Bell but most often it's another bandwidth provider. The actual installation of DSL service is done by Bell Canada's technicians. Also, you can get naked DSL right now and if you are on "High Speed" or "Ultra" there is no extra charge.