Hydro SmartStat

[Lesley]

Has anyone else signed up for this program? I got my new thermostat a few days ago and I have to say it's a big improvement from the old mercury switch dial thermostat.

http://hydroone.apogee.net/smartstat/

The only disadvantage - and if you're like me and cursed with a social concience it's not a bad thing - is that during peak hours Hydro can raise your AC temp by 2 degrees for a couple of hours. Perhaps a bit annoying on a hot day but if it keeps the power grid from failing, something that happens in my area a lot, then I think it's worth it.

The upside is that you can access the thermostat from the internet and change settings yourself. I haven't set this up yet but I like the idea.

I was lucky and a handsome young Aussie who looks like Desmond from Lost installed mine. Can't ask for better service than that. The dedicated help line is very good too.

[Thaiwoo]

No matter how good the installer guy or gal might look like, I would like to keep the control of my AC / Heat to myself.

So you need high speed internet to access the thermostat via the internet? Is that how Hydro accesses it?

[Lesley]

Hydro has a radio link of some sort to the thermostat. Once I get the internet portion set up I'll post and let you know what it's like.

Heat is not an issue, nor can I imagine it ever would be. For myself a couple degrees warmer for a couple hours is nothing if it means that the power won't go out.

[SPARKY]

It sounds like a good idea, but call me peranoid I don't like "big brother" monitoring me.That's why I have a progamable thermostat. I control how hot or cold I like it,,and when.

[AMD]

They used to just have a device which randomly cycles the outdoor unit and leaves the indoor blower running. (less efficient - it takes at least 20 minutes for a system to reach maximum efficiency + capacity.)

Automatically raising the temperature is a better way to do it, but why give beuracrats (sp?) control when it can be done with a simple programmable thermostat? (no radio or phone connection)


Perhaps a bit annoying on a hot day but if it keeps the power grid from failing, something that happens in my area a lot, then I think it's worth it.

Pre/over-cooling by one or two degrees in the morning (6AM-10AM) when demand is low can make the difference less noticable.

[Lesley]

Nice free thermostat for one?

[Thaiwoo]

Nice free thermostat for one?

I'm always skeptical when something comes for free. With this one here it's seems to be free but you loose some freedom.

Just not my kind of freebie.

Can you override it when they change the temp or does it lock the thermostat?

I'm all for conserving energy and I try my best to do so but I don't want anybody to control it remotely.

Wonder though if all the Government and Hydro One offices have one like that installed?

[Lesley]

You can call them and get the increase overridden, only so many times per season though. It's part of the deal. As I said I don't mind doing my small part for the greater good, cheesy I know but that's me.

I hope they do put it in government offices and businesses. Even one degree at peak demand hours would help. It's a good program and where systems aren't monitored it could be a real money saver. It's like turning off lights in government buildings at night, it doesn't seem to happen but if hydro could do it automatically, even from midnight to 6 am it could save a fortune.

[T_Totler]

Wonder though if all the Government and Hydro One offices have one like that installed?
This brings up the following point...

In an office environment, there are 3 kinds of people. (1) The whiners who complain it's too hot, (2) the whiners who complain it's too cold, and (3) those who can adapt and don't complain.

Every large office seems to have this problem and the whiners always seem to get all the attention from the building management office :ntb:

[Ken_ver_1_5]

If doing your part makes you feel good then thats all that matters.
I think programmable thermostats are a good idea.
for myself I don't like the idea of others controlling my comfort.

[Mouse]

You can call them and get the increase overridden, only so many times per season though. It's part of the deal.

I expect they set them based on current temperature minus 10°F.

That's all you really need, when you remove the humidity from the air anyway.


Every large office seems to have this problem and the whiners always seem to get all the attention from the building management office :ntb:

This is why they put lock-boxes over the thermostats.

Less stabbings with letter-openers that way.

[Dr-BYTES]

another hydro ripoff smartmeters and stats are just a excuse to raise rates

[Thaiwoo]

another hydro ripoff smartmeters and stats are just a excuse to raise rates

I think smart meters are a good idea. At least it gives you an incentive to concentrate some of your major electricity consumption (dryer, dish washer) to off peak / cheaper hours.

In Switzerland where I grew up they had smart meters as long as I can remember and on top of it they lock out the use of washers, dryers and water heaters during peek demand hours.

[Lesley]

another hydro ripoff smartmeters and stats are just a excuse to raise rates

I don't know about that - it's not like they've ever needed an excuse before. What I do think is that people who minimize their peak hours usage will reap the benefits of this technology, folks who don't give a rat's behind will pay more. In Ottawa we're a few years away from the smart meters actually monitoring when we use our power, they're installing them all first and then setting up the hardware to remotely monitor them.

I run my dryer and dishwasher after 10 pm or before 8 am all the time now, it's a habit. Bedtime I throw a load of wash on or start the dishwasher. When I wake up I throw the clothes in the dryer, early, or put them on the line if weather permits. It's not saving me money right now but it will in the future and it's my contribution to keeping the power grid working. I even have a dual oven, one smaller oven on top that draws a lot less power, which I use 90% of the time.

I sound like an advocate for Hydro, and I'm not. I'd like to see the whole lot at the top take a big pay cut or be tossed out on their asses because they're a big part of the reason the utility is in the trouble it is. Regardless one person can make a difference, I've lowered my hydro bill by $100 a month since Sep 06 by doing what I already mentioned, using timers, replacing bulbs with CFLs and shutting stuff off. My poor son runs on automatic now, I don't have to ask if he turned off his lights and PC, I just look at him.

[Lesley]

I think smart meters are a good idea. At least it gives you an incentive to concentrate some of your major electricity consumption (dryer, dish washer) to off peak / cheaper hours.

In Switzerland where I grew up they had smart meters as long as I can remember and on top of it they lock out the use of washers, dryers and water heaters during peek demand hours.

That's something else Hydro is doing with electric water heaters when you get a smart stat, they put something on them so they can turn them off during peak hours. A well insulated tank will still hold a nice reserve to keep you going during that period. I have a gas heater so it's not an issue for me.

[Mouse]

I also thought there was a program, whereby they gave you a $25 dollar one-time credit on your bill, if you allowed then to attach a time-sensitive switch on your electric water heater.

Can't find a link at the moment, but I believe it was to do an off-on for several hours over-night.

[Mouse]

Lesley beat me to it.

Again.

:(

[Lesley]

Lesley beat me to it.

Again.

:(

Poor mousemuffin

I think Exmortis said he put a timer on his hot water heater for the same reason, he's got the same type I do, a power vent gas heater. Mine never seems to go on overnight so I haven't bothered.

I have to set the timer up on my pool pump this weekend, I've been waiting until the water is good and stable to do son. Six hours off overnight will save me on both pool pump and pool heater.

[debbie]

Regardless one person can make a difference, I've lowered my hydro bill by $100 a month since Sep 06 by doing what I already mentioned, using timers, replacing bulbs with CFLs and shutting stuff off. That is inspirationally awesome, Lesley and a a huge monthly savings. :eek:

[Kath_Kw]

Talking about water heaters and timers. London Hydro used to rent the water heaters and they did come with some control but then local Hydros had to get out of the market and now my electric water heater has no outside controls. I never had a problem with their control anyways.
Lesley is your new thermostat programmable?

[Lesley]

Talking about water heaters and timers. London Hydro used to rent the water heaters and they did come with some control but then local Hydros had to get out of the market and now my electric water heater has no outside controls. I never had a problem with their control anyways.
Lesley is your new thermostat programmable?

It is Kathy, it's a Honeywell. The tech asked my prefs and programmed it for me which was nice of him.

[mcduff]

Toronto Hydro subscribers cut back on usage last year and guess what ?
We were rewarded by increased rates due to lost profits.

[Lesley]

I'll keep an eye out for that McDuff. this is the first year in Ottawa for these.

[AMD]

Toronto Hydro subscribers cut back on usage last year and guess what ?
We were rewarded by increased rates due to lost profits.

Rates will always go up - just like everything.

Well over 60% of the current generation capacity (much of which is nuclear - $1 billion+ to refurbish a reactor, several billion dollars to build) will have to be refurbished or replaced by 2020; where on earth do you think the money is supposed to come from if rates are to remain flat?

Look at your last hydro bill and take notice to the debt retirement charge. Either we pay a little bit more now or fork out several times as much later as a result of interest.


Most of the people who complain about the cost of electricity seem to be excessive consumers anyway. (Consuming in excess of 20-30kwh per day, provided that heating and domestic hot water are not included)

[Twan]

$100/month savings?! Wow, I guess we don't use much. Our hydro bill has ranged from $65-85/month over the last 12 months. Last summer we replaced a 20-year old A/C unit with a far more efficient model (which I almost single-handedly attribute to us reducing our consumption during the summer by 35% from prior year) We also put in new Maytag washer/dryer two years ago (top loader, but it's a model that's almost as good as a front load machine) to replace a really old set, and we bought a stove that has two ovens, the much smaller top one being what we use 95% of the time and which heats up in minutes.

I won't go for the automatic switch on the A/C. I put in a digital thermostat two years ago and it's set higher during the day when nobody's around, and marginally higher at night. I'd like to open windows more on cooler days/nights but that tends to set people's allergies off sometimes.

[Granite]

I just purchased a new thermostat that lets me have individual settings for everyday of the week with 4 temperature changes. Does this thermostat give you at least that much control or more?

[Lesley]

I'm not sure because I didn't set it up, the installer did. Here's a link to the instruction manual if you're interested

http://www.instruccionesweb.com/u2/pdf/termostato/Honeywell-T7518A-en.pdf

[tweakthis]

This brings up the following point...

In an office environment, there are 3 kinds of people. (1) The whiners who complain it's too hot, (2) the whiners who complain it's too cold, and (3) those who can adapt and don't complain.

Every large office seems to have this problem and the whiners always seem to get all the attention from the building management office :ntb:The whiners who say it's too cold can always put one more clothing. When I'm down to four pieces of clothing and "glowing" from the temperature, there's not much more I can take off! LOL

[AMD]

I'm not sure because I didn't set it up, the installer did. Here's a link to the instruction manual if you're interested

http://www.instruccionesweb.com/u2/pdf/termostato/Honeywell-T7518A-en.pdf

I just read the instructions and it offers extremely limited programming options. Two periods per day instead of the regular four - no wonder it's free. It's also a pain for anyone who's trying to work on the system during peak periods. (although it can be taken off the wall and bypassed completely)

A $70 model from home depot or canadian tire is more flexible.

[mcduff]

I have used a Honeywell set back for years and am satified. Plus for us oldtimers, it is progammable in Fah or Cen.

Aside to AMD:
The rate increase at Toronto Hydro had nothing to do with expansion or repairs. It was because conservation by users netted less PROFIT and thus the rate increase to make up for lost Profit.

[AMD]

Aside to AMD:
The rate increase at Toronto Hydro had nothing to do with expansion or repairs. It was because conservation by users netted less PROFIT and thus the rate increase to make up for lost Profit.

Do you have anything to backup that statement with? Do you believe the same thing about natural gas, even though though production has peaked in north america?

Conservation has yet to have a significant impact on total energy consumption. The price that you pay is equal to or less than what it costs to produce electricity.

Distribution rates aside, the current regulated rate of 5.3 cents per kWh (6.2 if you consume more than 600kwh per month) is dirt cheap. (50% of the bill is for distribution and debt retirement, so it's around 10-11 cents total)

This website (http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/siteShared/demand_price.asp?sid=ic) displays the wholesale price; during periods of higher demand (weekdays 8am - 8pm), the cost is well over the regulated rate. Every few months the rate is adjusted according to previous and forecasted wholesale prices.

The regulated cost of electricity has actually gone down from 5.8+ cents per kwh in the past year as a result of more supply (a pickering unit came online, along with a few smaller plants) and less reliance on imports.

http://www.energyshop.com/es/general/ele/direction.cfm?r

http://www.energyshop.com/es/images/pricechart-elect-0701.gif

[Mouse]

When I'm down to four pieces of clothing and "glowing" from the temperature, there's not much more I can take off! LOL
Then you are not trying hard enough. :tooths:

[short circuit]

Do you have anything to backup that statement with? Do you believe the same thing about natural gas, even though though production has peaked in north america?

Conservation has yet to have a significant impact on total energy consumption. The price that you pay is equal to or less than what it costs to produce electricity.

Distribution rates aside, the current regulated rate of 5.3 cents per kWh (6.2 if you consume more than 600kwh per month) is dirt cheap. (50% of the bill is for distribution and debt retirement, so it's around 10-11 cents total)

http://www.electricityforum.com/news/apr05/Ontarioelectricityfeejump.html
This website (http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/siteShared/demand_price.asp?sid=ic) displays the wholesale price; during periods of higher demand (weekdays 8am - 8pm), the cost is well over the regulated rate. Every few months the rate is adjusted according to previous and forecasted wholesale prices.

The regulated cost of electricity has actually gone down from 5.8+ cents per kwh in the past year as a result of more supply (a pickering unit came online, along with a few smaller plants) and less reliance on imports.

http://www.energyshop.com/es/general/ele/direction.cfm?r

http://www.energyshop.com/es/images/pricechart-elect-0701.gif

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Sorry for hijacking the thread - this will be my last post here.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/03/22/toronto-hydro-conservation.html

http://www.thestar.com/article/194785

http://www.electricityforum.com/news/apr05/Ontarioelectricityfeejump.html

[Exmortis]

I think Exmortis said he put a timer on his hot water heater for the same reason, he's got the same type I do, a power vent gas heater.

Yup, that's how my hot water tank has been for the past 5 years. It's on for 2 hrs in the morning and that's it. Just enough for everyone to take their showers and refill the tank with hot water. That tank is quite good so even at 9pm, the water is hot enough for usage. And it has an easy override button if I ever need more hot water.

As for the thermostat, a got a 5/2 Honeywell from Rona and it's good enough for me.

[AMD]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/03/22/toronto-hydro-conservation.html

http://www.thestar.com/article/194785

http://www.electricityforum.com/news/apr05/Ontarioelectricityfeejump.html

I never mentioned the distribution rate, nor have I kept track of it.

For Toronto hydro that's the excuse, but is it the truth? Many factors affect revenue, most of which are probably not reported. (I could be wrong here)

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Edit:



The utility blames the revenue loss on the success of conservation programs over the past two years and the cost of buying and installing thousands of smart meters.


Ah, expensive smart meters. Now why wasn't that also part of the headline? :rolleyes:


If approved, customers using about 1,000 kilowatt hours per month would see an increase of $2.07 on their bills, the utility says.


So it's essentially a tiny increase which will not offset the savings (from conservation) by a long shot.

End edit.
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Regardless of what execs and CEOs (paid millions of dollars per year :nnk: ) claim, Toronto's demand is not decreasing in the long run.

The per kWh regulated rate* which is Ontario wide (distribution is a utility issue) has not been raised to compensate for conservation. (It's closer to the cost to produce electricity, and is adjusted as required)

*Approximately 50% of a typical hydro bill

Regardless of what happens to current rates, energy efficiency upgrades save money on everyone's part and reduce (but not eliminate) the need build new powerplants

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----------------------->Sorry for hijacking the thread - this will be my last post here. <------------------------