Backyard Right of Way

[kibboy]

Hi, I recently bought end unit row house and the since we back on to a street the only way for the other homeowners to get in their backyards, other than through the house, is through my yard. There are fence doors between each yard. Anyone know where I can find the legislation or bylaw for this type of thing for my own peace of mind? I’ve searched the net but the search terms isn’t conducive to proper search results.

Thanks

[T_Totler]

Is this a freehold or condo unit? - If a condo, what do the condo bylaws state? - Did you or your lawyer read through it?

What did the listing say? - and did your real estate lawyer look into this by way of proper title search??

This sounds like the typical "mutual access / drive" dilemna.

[Thaiwoo]

Sounds like pizz azz poor planning on the behalf of the builder which probably only saw $$$ signs when coming up with it.

Man I would hate that and by cutting everybody off I'm sure you will make a lot of friends.

Other option is to get a pittbull and leave it out all the time;)

[Bogie]

As T_Totler asked, is it a condo or freehold?

With a fence with gates between yards sounds like a condo arrangement (albeit a weird one, as usually no fences). If it is a condo you probably don't have any choice in the matter as the condo corporation owns the property surrounding your unit. It becomes "common" property. If it is a condo, read your bylaws (should be a nice thick document you would have received on purchase). BTW, if it is indeed a condo, in hindsight, this should have been disclosed to you before purchasing.

We live in an end unit townhouse ourselves, but it is a condo, no fences between yards - wish we could, but such is the trade-off for the condo perks.

If a freehold, then lock the gates as you also own the land - pure and simple. Freehold townhouses, row houses, links, or whatever the going phrase is in their marketing plans, means you own the whole house and the property specified in your purchase agreement. Read over your purchase agreement/sales document that you signed. Even if a freehold, there may be some caveats and conditions you missed.

[kibboy]

It's a freehold and my lawyer did say something about it. My ears perked up when he mentioned it and I asked questions. He seemed to be trying to answer but I could tell he knew nothing about it. My thinking was that it was just a fire route but people seem to act like it's a public pathway. The day we moved in I look out my window to see buddy moving a foosball table over my fence, through my yard and up the side of my house. All this without a courtesy knock to say he was doing so. I was fairly stunned and thought it better to get information on the laws surrounding the issue before actually confronting him about it.

If asked I probably wouldn’t have a problem with it but I would let it be known he’s not free to use my property as a an extension to his crocket course so he should tread lightly. Another neighbor two doors down says in passing “If you see someone going through your backyard with a lawnmower, don’t worry, that’s just me!”. Had I’d a been there I may have responded “…and if you see a bare white butt bending over practicing the fine art of nude gardening, don’t worry, that’s just me! Say, does your wife do lawns?” Ok, Ok maybe that’s a little overboard but a man’s gotta feel he owns what he owns.

I’m going to press my lawyer on the issue once more for clarification. I’m hoping it’s not an actual right-of-way lest I have to add a new addition to the family named Chomper ;)

[Lesley]

You may want to find a peaceful way to settle this. You've purchased the property so you must intend to live there for awhile. Certainly your neighbours can reasonably move most things through their houses instead of through your yard but do you really want to go to war over lawnmowers? If there is no legal right of way you still may want to keep the peace by allowing access one day a week for lawn cutting. I know from experience it's very difficult to live beside a neighbour with whom you have a bad relationship.

When you live in such close quarters it's good to keep in mind that they can make your life uncomfortable very easily if you give them reason to do so.

[kibboy]

You’re right that it’s in no ones best interest to make enemies. That would just cause bickering on smaller issues down the road. That being said there is no way I’m going to open up my yard to a free for all even for one day a week. Basic decency dictates that to use someone else’s property you ask first. To do otherwise is ignorant and disrespectful regardless of the environment set by the previous owner. If this basic societal law is not adhered to it’s not my life that will be made more difficult. Honestly, it shouldn’t even have come to this. I can’t for the life of me imagine why you wouldn’t ask a new neighbor before moving stuff through his yard.

I’ll be diplomatic about it of course and I anticipate it being resolved smoothly but should the matter be escalated I’m going to be sure I know the proper laws.

[Mouse]

My Ex has a free-hold townhouse too. It is also "land-locked". (No gates.)

She has asked her neighbour for permission to move garden design stuff over the back fence, but mostly she just schleps the brick, soil, etc, through the house.

Even her little push mower. That's why she no longer has any grass back there. ;)

PS: Any easements should be stipulated in your Land Title. No easement, get a pair of locks for your gates.

[Mr. Apollo]

I hate to say this but you probably should have investigated this further when it seemed like your lawyer didn't know anything about it.

I remember reading an article about a couple in Oakville who were in a similar situation, but on the other side. That is to say they couldn't get on to their property unless they crossed their neighbour's first. However, the neighbour put up very high fencing and barred them from coming onto their property. In the end the only way they could get on their property was to sneak onto it at night by coming ashore from Lake Ontario.

From what I understood, Ontario law had no requirements for allowing someone to access their propety but cutting across someone else's. However, I am not a lawyer so you would be best to clarify this with City Hall, the police department, and maybe even your MPP.

Just to be on the safe side, I would ask from both points of view. Call once and ask if you have to allow your neighbours access. Then call a second time asking if your neighbour has to allow you access to his back yard. If you get the same answer both times then you know you're OK.

[Bogie]

That's the right attitude kibboy. I'd still lock the gates though. Right at the start you need to let your neighbours know that this is your property, not theirs, and they must respect your privacy and ownership.

EDIT: as Mr.Apollo stated, make sure there is not an easement (public access) or stipulation of access in your purchase paperwork. Read it yourself - lawyers can really rack up a good bill doing this sort of stuff.

The old saying that "fences make good neighbours" is so true, but fences with gates is next to insanity. That was a real failing of the builder in the first place.

Set the rules now as it is a lot easier than later on. If you do it later then it becomes a personal issue that someone might take as an insult, prejudice, or whatever. Do it now, before you get to know them, and then they know that permission is needed and you really aren't a bad guy.

We hardly know our neighbours and we've been here going into our 10th year. In townhouses people tend to move more frequently. Many are rental units, as townhouses are considered a good income maker for landlords. In many cases you will never know if it is an owner or a tenant living at the townhome close to you. You are an owner so take possession of your property. If you let free passage take place then you might as well remove the gates altogether.

Be friendly, be charmful, be a good neighbour, but be firm.

[Just Doug1]

If there is anything legal, it would be listed as an easement on someones title description.

[Bogie]

Yep, really pays to read the whole title agreement and any other legal docs that accompany the sale.The lawyer and real estate agent involved should also have pointed this out, but they rarely do. Get the sale, move on to the next. If you refer back to a thread that Chevy had posted you can see the nightmares of improper paperwork and lack of due diligence on everyone's part.

Our 2nd house here in Barrie was a semi, fenced-in yard, etc. One day we got a visit from a city inspector telling us to remove stuff we had done (gardens, etc.) from the last "x" feet inside our back fence as it was a city easement and not to be obstructed. We either complied or had it done for us, billed, and fined. It was a slight slope at that point that followed through all properties on our side of the street - meant for water flow in case of heavy rains. We had not obstructed it, in fact had recognized the possible drainage aspect and reinforced it to make sure it would work OK if needed, but we had stuff within the area in question - we even had to remove our improvement to the drainage area. Upon pulling out our docs from the sale, there it was, in small print, buried within one of the documents.

[debbie]

I agree with Bogie - lock your gate.
Make them come to you and make nice.
They'll let you know if you're breaking a rule.

The neighbour letting you know about them and their lawnmower is particularly galling.

Mr. Apollo - I remember reading that piece and could not believe the City of Oakville planning and permit people allowed a developer to do that. Money talks everyone else takes the boat.

[lovey]

I agree with Bogie too,lock the gates.if you don,t here from a town repersentatve you are ok,if you do hear from them play dumb,I didn,t know

[Mr. Apollo]

I agree with Bogie too,lock the gates.if you don,t here from a town repersentatve you are ok,if you do hear from them play dumb,I didn,t know
Eh, I woud be careful as you may get a counselor who will "encourage" a city staff member to say that you need to allow your neighbours to have access to your property just to keep them quiet. Be on the safe side and double check it yourself (or get a lawyer to).

[SPARKY]

Buy one of these , LOL
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[C.S.T.R.S.]

We had a freehold townhouse and lived in the end unit. On our survey it was clearly marked that there was an easement b/w the houses and along the back of the yard. Most of our neighbours were very curtious and walked along the property line at the front of the house when going to the back. There was maybe one that always cut in front of our door, but they were great people so it wasn't a big deal for us.
We put up a partial privacy fence in the backyard that came out from the house about 12 ft or so and that stopped them from cutting through the back too. :hjy: