Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

[Digiital]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

[Just Doug1]

Micheal Moore should volunteeer his services and plop his fat arse into one of the levee breaches.

[BillD]

Perhaps, but what he has said is true. The handling of the aftermath, to date, is almost worse than the disaster itself.

[David]

He's right though... May not agree with his method of communication, but he's right.

[Bogie]

Perhaps, but what he has said is true. The handling of the aftermath, to date, is almost worse than the disaster itself.While it has appeared to be very slow and non-caring, I cannot fully fault any specific division of government. The "big machine" simply does not move very fast when on this scale. This isn't a movie set and make believe.

I am really disappointed at the lack of communication (blamed for much of this dis-array), that caused most of the slow "action", and, in this day of such high technology and instant communication by so many methods, I find is appauling.

I do not believe, at all, that there is any racially or economically-based reason for this apparent "slow to react and be ready" scenario. To say so is being racial within itself.

Not all that stayed were in an inability to leave. Many, and I mean MANY, stayed for whatever other reason they wanted. Many "well-to-do", many "whites", even vacationers (why a hurricane would provide entertainment I'll never know), and many out of pure disregard for a mandatory evacuation notice. How many would have been left if all that could leave, did?

Purely blaming government is laying false-blame. Can you imagine the "shock and awe" of finding out how many people decided to ignore the "official request" to leave? Living in a free society, it is hard to take up arms and force people out.

The comment that "we could not afford to leave" looks pretty feeble now, when they are even in a worse state of affairs. What price is life?

It is easy to have 20/20 rear vision. I am sure many, and I mean many, government decisions to reallocate funds from different projects, occurs every day, in every government - even here. Our almost non-existent military and lack of updated medical facilities could leave us open to a similar situation in case of a massive disaster (think of Vancouver on the west coast if a massive earthquake hit - a big possibility and always ignored). We (Canada, US, etc.) do not have enough funds to do everything we want to do, so we do the shell game, hoping not to lose. This time the US picked the wrong shell.

The US also has a different political system than we do. States run their own little countries, authority for assistance starts there.

As Senator Tate stated, (not exact words, as I can't remember exactly) "The National Guard is a civilian army, volunteers who are not sitting in an armoury all ready-to-go on a moments notice. They need to get organized and ready and mobilize. They have their own personal lives.".

There was some help immediately. How do you prioritize? Again, imagine the shock of finally realizing how many stayed and needed help.

Micheal Moore stated about a wide F4 tornado .... would you have stayed in it's path and not got out of the way - no matter what you financial or mobility state of affairs? Many vehicles left town with just one or two people in them. Did you see how many vehicles were left in town? Thousands! In parking lots? Outside buildings?

Many have stated, on camera, "I never thought it would be this bad - after all, I stayed here during other Hurricanes". Not a Category 4, and it was a Category 5 when they were told to leave!

This whole devastation, I am sure, bothers us all - I know it does me. It is frustrating to watch. It is frustrating to know that those people could have left and that the rescue mission would have been to known locations of shelter only - hospitals, etc.

I do fault the US federal government for not assessing, faster, the need for their equivalent of "martial law", and immediately flying in troops to keep order and make sure that the obvious "disorder" would not occur. The hell with red tape and procedure. At least the civil disobedience would have been minimized and controlled.

This will take many years to stabilize, and the lives of those affected to carry-on, wherever they decide to live. I am sure the death toll will be in the thousands, when all is said and done.

[Tim]

well his fat arse might actually help the levee hey, you never know.

But sadly, even though I didn't think it was was a well written letter, there isn't much there that isn't true.

[Otis]

An interesting breakdown of past Presidents and how they handled similar situations.
Quite clearly, it shows that Bush Jr, didn't handle the situation correctly.



The federal government is the last line of defense, and as such, is the most critical. It is supposed to be in place in case all other defenses fail. The problem for you is that other presidents were prepared for such emergencies, so why wasn't Bush?

In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the Carolinas and Virginia.

President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the
rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is how you do it.

How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again, President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.


In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after the skies cleared.

Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party; and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency 1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals. Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting last Sunday night.

[Tim]

thanks Otis. Nice post.

[Quintin]

Micheal Moore should volunteeer his services and plop his fat arse into one of the levee breaches.
Last I heard he was either getting his stomach stapled or in a weight reducing clinic.......his mouth and brain has made him millions so he could actually afford to sit in the levee.

[Neal]

Keep up the good work Mr. Moore!

[YABA]

yep, i enjoy what he has to say, bush is an ASS will always be one.

[Just Doug1]

yep, i enjoy what he has to say, bush is an ASS will always be one.

It's true that Gee Dubya is no rocket scientist, but your appellation can be applied to Morre just as easily.

[Exmortis]

While it has appeared to be very slow and non-caring, I cannot fully fault any specific division of government. The "big machine" simply does not move very fast when on this scale. This isn't a movie set and make believe.

Yet... When you think back to our Ice Storm that affected several hundreds of thousands of people in sub-zero temperatures, the contrast in responses, evacuations, rescue, repairs, etc, is quite big. So a big machine can be made to move fast and effectively. The Ice Storm wasn't a movie set either, but it was handled in a spectacular way compared to New-Orleans.

[I LIKE EGGS]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Mr. Moore....did you personally drive to New Orleans to help in the aid of people? Help rescue them before the hurricane came? What ever happended to looking out for "OUR" fellow man?

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

So....where exactly was the cavalry supposed to wait for this disaster? What area? In the eye of the storm? Regardless of the communication factor....disasters take time to assess any situation, especially with this level of severity.

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

If a hurricane passed over your head.....might I suggest "weight watchers" instead of hurricane watch-ing?

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

Are you there with your bailing bucket???

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

This I found really funny. You know the levee that broke was the newest constructed one? I also think that Mr. Moore should go and look up the termed definition of the word DEMOCRACY.

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

Well when no one was listening to the Mayor, the police or the military to get out and get to safety.....what makes you think they are going to listen to George Bush?

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

If the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter......is this entirely the fault of the USA? I belive Mexico has a HUGE pollution problem.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

How is the poverty in New Orleans the Governments fault? Why are people so easy to blame the Government for their short comings? People on the outside just see "poor" without ever once asking "how did that person get poor?" People should be responsible for themselves, NOT the government.....at the end of the day you are where you are because you CHOSE to be there.

"I do not blame people for their mistakes.....I only ask that they pay for them." ~John Hammond-Jurassic park~

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Well Mr. Moore, with all that money you get from tearing the government to shreads with your "one sided review"......where are all the helicopters "you" rented to help save the people. I love it when people such as yourselves complain about the lack of others actions....especially when you are getting so much done for these people when you are sitting behind your computer in the lap of luxury of your own dry, warm electric fueled home. Well done... the pen really IS mightier than the sword.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com (http://www.MichaelMoore.com)

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

It is so easy to sit back behind the scenes and critisize everything you do. Hey Mr. Moore......if you are so smart and keen on this politics thingy, if you have what it takes to be our saviour, if you have an answer on how to protect the people during any given situation......why haven't you run for president u lazy sloth? You make money to B.I.T. (and the first two letters in C.H.urch) about the president.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Yet... When you think back to our Ice Storm that affected several hundreds of thousands of people in sub-zero temperatures, the contrast in responses, evacuations, rescue, repairs, etc, is quite big. So a big machine can be made to move fast and effectively. The Ice Storm wasn't a movie set either, but it was handled in a spectacular way compared to New-Orleans.

You don't honestly believe that the ice storms here were as severe or equally as devistating as the hurricane do you?

[frostyone]

" a Canadian task force of firefighters and police arrived four days after the storm to help, St. Bernard Fire Chief Thomas Stone said.

``If you can get a Canadian team here in four days, U.S. teams should be here faster than that,'' Stone said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5258979,00.html

[Exmortis]

You don't honestly believe that the ice storms here were as severe or equally as devistating as the hurricane do you?

No power, no water, no heat, sub-zero temperatures, no roads... And the rescue efforts sprung into action in hours, not days. Things were mobilised in no time. Much of Montreal was evacuated during the ice-storm. Not as bad as New Orleans, but the number of people displaced must have been pushing half a million - can't find an exact number but 100,000 people were in shelters (everyone I know went to other locations). The police and military dealt with it fast, and promptly. Every generator in the region was moved to the area, and put into use fast. Looting wasn't that serious.

What's amazing here, is that there was no emergency plan for an ice-storm in Montreal. The New Orleans situation was well known, and well rehearsed.

[Digiital]

And I did help out with communications at the EOC(Emergency Operations Centre) and I will say I was VERY impressed at how the centre was setup and how everyone was working together, there was someone there from Gas/Hydro/Bell/Rogers every ministry you can think of and the list goes on.


Yet... When you think back to our Ice Storm that affected several hundreds of thousands of people in sub-zero temperatures, the contrast in responses, evacuations, rescue, repairs, etc, is quite big. So a big machine can be made to move fast and effectively. The Ice Storm wasn't a movie set either, but it was handled in a spectacular way compared to New-Orleans.

[I LIKE EGGS]

No power, no water, no heat, sub-zero temperatures, no roads... And the rescue efforts sprung into action in hours, not days. Things were mobilised in no time. Much of Montreal was evacuated during the ice-storm. Not as bad as New Orleans, but the number of people displaced must have been pushing half a million - can't find an exact number but 100,000 people were in shelters (everyone I know went to other locations). The police and military dealt with it fast, and promptly. Every generator in the region was moved to the area, and put into use fast. Looting wasn't that serious.

What's amazing here, is that there was no emergency plan for an ice-storm in Montreal. The New Orleans situation was well known, and well rehearsed.

New Orleans has no power, no water (or clean water) no heat (except in th e day) No shelter, no food and no roads.

But at least the people of Montreal had their homes to shelter themselves in. Had the food inside the homes to eat if need be....and water. If they were cold....at least they could put on a sweater. If you are wet, cold and have nothing else to wear nor any shelter from the wind....what do you put on then? A happy face?

As for the response time of our military persons, the police, the aid and the right decisions made.....You are right....to compare....then for sure, we did a great job at getting to the aid of others. I guess it is easy for our military to respond to something when you are not busy doing anything else. Surprised that our military is quicker to respond for snow issues than the city that is responsible to plow it. :eri:

[Exmortis]

But at least the people of Montreal had their homes to shelter themselves in. Had the food inside the homes to eat if need be....and water. If they were cold....at least they could put on a sweater.

No! Not when it's -20C outside! How do you drink frozen water? How do you eat frozen food? Just put on a sweater? They had NO HEAT! Get real... Did you miss the part where I said they were EVACUATED? Anyway, that was not my point. I'm talking about the response time from the authorities. It didn't take 5 days for the government to take action.


Surprised that our military is quicker to respond for snow issues than the city that is responsible to plow it. :eri:

Read again... It wasn't a snow storm, it was an ICE storm. And where do you get the idea that Montreal was slow to respond?

[I LIKE EGGS]

No! Not when it's -20C outside! How do you drink frozen water? How do you eat frozen food? Just put on a sweater? They had NO HEAT! Get real... Did you miss the part where I said they were EVACUATED? Anyway, that was not my point. I'm talking about the response time from the authorities. It didn't take 5 days for the government to take action.



Read again... It wasn't a snow storm, it was an ICE storm. And where do you get the idea that Montreal was slow to respond?

You are right, they were evacuated....and the people that stayed in their homes were at least sheltered. And that was my point. However I agreed with you.

You can survive in -20 weather....sheesh. THEY HAD SHELTER. They had no wind chill. Since when was -20 and in shelter such a hardship? So yeah put on a sweater, put on some more pants and put on another pair of socks. CRIPES, kids play pond hockey for 18 hours a day in weather that would only be descriped as arctic type temperatures. Wow have you ever turned into a powder puff.

My response about the military was regarding the fact that I was surprised that they were able to respond so quickly to the ICE storm when they are busy dealing with SNOW issues. Thought you would have picked that up being as sharp as you are. My mistake. Next time I will explain it better.

I never said Montreal was slow to respond....maybe YOU should read again. I agreed with you ya dingus! :)

[Quintin]

Since you attacked Moore's weight your fair game for me to attack your ignorance. Playing pond hockey and coming home to warm mugs of chicken noodle soup before jumping into a hot shower is not close to someone without power. It doesn't cut it to just put on more clothes as you ignorantly suggest.




You can survive in -20 weather....sheesh. THEY HAD SHELTER. They had no wind chill. Since when was -20 and in shelter such a hardship? So yeah put on a sweater, put on some more pants and put on another pair of socks. CRIPES, kids play pond hockey for 18 hours a day in weather that would only be descriped as arctic type temperatures. Wow have you ever turned into a powder puff.

[Exmortis]

THEY HAD SHELTER. They had no wind chill. Since when was -20 and in shelter such a hardship?

Oh ya... I forget... You said "Had the food inside the homes to eat if need be....and water". Ya... Those don't freeze, right? Do you eat sweaters when you're hungry?


Wow have you ever turned into a powder puff.

Have you ever had to worry about your grandparents stuck in such a situation? Have you? Since when a bunch of pond hockey playing kids compare to 80+ years old people?

[I LIKE EGGS]

I think you are missing the bigger picture. First off not all food requires HEAT to be prepared. A fridge is insullated.....it keeps heat and cold out. Ice can be melted to make water. The water did NOT freeze instantly in the homes so they were still able to create a surplus of water. Dirty water (such as what is going in in New Orleans) is not suitable to drink nor can anyone from their rooftops do anything to make it so. But this is neither here nor there. Without even putting it on an equal platform or level playing field....both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans. To me that is ignorance (as quintin was nice enough to suggest). These people are stuck on rooftops without ANYTHING. At least people in Montreal "if" they had a fridge, food in their cupboards, fireplace or a generator....had choices that the ones in New Orleans DO NOT have. So justify what you may. Bottom line is all I was saying is that if you want to compare I believe the people in New Orleans have it worse.

[I LIKE EGGS]

But please....keep attacking me. That will make the problems.....or should I say challenges go away. Besides, we have gone thru a record summer heat wave. The 80+ year olds and children had a far worse scenario to face than a week in the winter without certain amenities.

[Exmortis]

First off not all food requires HEAT to be prepared.

But you can't eat it frozen stiff! Is that so hard to understand?


The water did NOT freeze instantly in the homes so they were still able to create a surplus of water.

You really think it was that slow to happen? Were you there? I was...


both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans.

Learn how to read...

"Anyway, that was not my point. I'm talking about the response time from the authorities. It didn't take 5 days for the government to take action."

You're the one downplaying the Ice Storm as if it wasn't a big deal and didn't create a harsh environment to survive in despite all the emergencies and evacuation orders. I never ever once said the ice storm was worse. Nor did I give a single hint of this.

[Exmortis]

But please....keep attacking me.

You decided to jump in to attack me. Don't cry and hope for sympathy.



The 80+ year olds and children had a far worse scenario to face than a week in the winter without certain amenities.

A week? Just one week? Go back to read about history. Try over two months.

[soldier]

Micheal Moore should volunteeer his services and plop his fat arse into one of the levee breaches.

Now that! was good. :vil:

[I LIKE EGGS]

But you can't eat it frozen stiff! Is that so hard to understand?

But if it is NOT frozen then why are are you suggesting it is? So all food froze right when the storm came?

You really think it was that slow to happen? Were you there? I was...

I think you watch too many movies. The situation in Montreal was not like "the day after tomorrow" Water does NOT freeze right away.

Learn how to read...

Read what....what are you suggesting I need to re-read.

"Anyway, that was not my point. I'm talking about the response time from the authorities. It didn't take 5 days for the government to take action."

And I agreed with you. Learn how to read....

You're the one downplaying the Ice Storm as if it wasn't a big deal and didn't create a harsh environment to survive in despite all the emergencies and evacuation orders. I never ever once said the ice storm was worse. Nor did I give a single hint of this.

I never said it wasn't a big deal, I was stating that at least Montrealers had "something" in comparison to nothing.

Again I was agreeing with you but apparently "I agree" is not statement enough.

[Quintin]

I am not suggesting it's worse nor did I say such a thing, only stating that you can't compare pond hockey to the ice storm.


I think you are missing the bigger picture. First off not all food requires HEAT to be prepared. A fridge is insullated.....it keeps heat and cold out. Ice can be melted to make water. The water did NOT freeze instantly in the homes so they were still able to create a surplus of water. Dirty water (such as what is going in in New Orleans) is not suitable to drink nor can anyone from their rooftops do anything to make it so. But this is neither here nor there. Without even putting it on an equal platform or level playing field....both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans. To me that is ignorance (as quintin was nice enough to suggest). These people are stuck on rooftops without ANYTHING. At least people in Montreal "if" they had a fridge, food in their cupboards, fireplace or a generator....had choices that the ones in New Orleans DO NOT have. So justify what you may. Bottom line is all I was saying is that if you want to compare I believe the people in New Orleans have it worse.

[Exmortis]

And I agreed with you. Learn how to read....

My statement was about your lie.

"both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans. "

Learn how to read because I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT and IT WAS NOT MY ORIGINAL POINT. Oh and learn to comprehend conversations. I really truly honnestly don't care if you agree with me or not. That's not what your jab was about and I replied to that.

[I LIKE EGGS]

You decided to jump in to attack me. Don't cry and hope for sympathy.

Sorry to disappoint....but I was not crying. Nor did I attack you. I was agreeing with you.....JEBUS EX you really have issues. Follow your suggestions. Re-read.

A week? Just one week? Go back to read about history. Try over two months.

A week before being rescued....not the length of the storm. Are you telling me that people were stranded in their homes for over 2 months?

All I did was ask you whether or not you thought it was the same or not. You responded, I stated what I thought about the situation, then agreed with you regarding the response time.

[Exmortis]

Are you telling me that people were stranded in their homes for over 2 months?

Have you not seen the word "evacuation" or "evacuated" in my posts? Did I not also use the word "shelters" in my post? Is it so hard to understand that many were in out of their homes for weeks and then came back to flooded home from burst pipes? Do you not know ANYTHING from the ice storm?

[I LIKE EGGS]

My statement was about your lie.

"both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans. "

Learn how to read because I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT and IT WAS NOT MY ORIGINAL POINT. Oh and learn to comprehend conversations. I really truly honnestly don't care if you agree with me or not. That's not what your jab was about and I replied to that.

Um actually yeah it was....because I agreed with your point and you still kept telling ME to re-read. Ex, if you did not care what I had to say than you would not have retorted case and point. Maybe you should really, truly, honestly think about that. Obviously you did care or you would not have added so much thought into the fact that you really truly honestly don't care. Who are you trying to convince? But thank you for teaching me how to learn to comprehend conversations. Funny when I state it out for you in black and white it is YOU that does not understand it.

Had you noticed "seem to be" in quotations it suggests that it "appears" and not that it is actually stated. No different from what you "think" I am saying. It was merely what I interpreted from what you said.

I asked if you thought one was worse than the other.....you repsonded. In the same post I agreed with you regarding the military response and added a side note that I was surprised with their response time given their other civic duties of shovelling snow in Toronto. So who turned this into a pissing contest?

[I LIKE EGGS]

Have you not seen the word "evacuation" or "evacuated" in my posts? Did I not also use the word "shelters" in my post? Is it so hard to understand that many were in out of their homes for weeks and then came back to flooded home from burst pipes? Do you not know ANYTHING from the ice storm?

Exactly. These people were not STRANDED, they were evacuated to shelters....I understood that. Please tell me where I thought that they were left helpless to fend for themselves. All I was saying was that at least they could survive on things that the people of New Orleans do NOT have. But a bursted pipe to a potentially flooded basement seems to be trivial in comparison. But of course I know nothing about the ice storm.....I always argue about things I know nothing about.

[Digiital]

No you don't, but realize something. When it's -20c outside doesn't mean that it's +20 in the house, after a few hours without heat it's a matter of no time the inside of the house is going to drop down to at least -10c. And everything in the house is going to be effect. Food is going to freeze and what little water you have. And food in the fridge is going to freeze as well. Yes it's insulated but not for long. The inside of the fridge is going to drop down to -10c as well.

Most people have electric stove so of course without power you can't use it. Even if it's natural gas it's not going to work for very long either with the lack of power, the pumps used to place the gas under pressure to the natural gas lines isn't going to last long. So it's a little hard to melt Ice/Snow without the heat source. And plus the amount of energy required to melt snow is not worth it. Trust me on this one, if you have done any winter camping you will know what I mean.
Propane gas BBQ's aren't the best thing either when it's -20c outside.

Even if the water wasn't dirty your not going to want to drink it anyways because it's pretty much salt water.

The two events are different. With the Ice storm you could walk around, people weren't stuck out on their roof. Each one have their own issues to deal with.

People in New Orleans were warned to get out of the city, yes I realize not everyone have cars. But look at the footage, there you can see A LOT of cars just floating around.



I think you are missing the bigger picture. First off not all food requires HEAT to be prepared. A fridge is insulated.....it keeps heat and cold out. Ice can be melted to make water. The water did NOT freeze instantly in the homes so they were still able to create a surplus of water. Dirty water (such as what is going in in New Orleans) is not suitable to drink nor can anyone from their rooftops do anything to make it so. But this is neither here nor there. Without even putting it on an equal platform or level playing field....both Ex and Quin "seem to be" suggesting that what happened in Montreal is worse than in New Orleans. To me that is ignorance (as quintin was nice enough to suggest). These people are stuck on rooftops without ANYTHING. At least people in Montreal "if" they had a fridge, food in their cupboards, fireplace or a generator....had choices that the ones in New Orleans DO NOT have. So justify what you may. Bottom line is all I was saying is that if you want to compare I believe the people in New Orleans have it worse.

[Exmortis]

because I agreed with your point

Give it up. I don't care whether you agree or not. What I will care about is what you're trying to imply on me. That never happened. I challenge you to prove otherwise. Don't act all surprised when someone reacts to a personal jab.

[Exmortis]

Exactly. These people were not STRANDED, they were evacuated to shelters....

Not everyone. Do you know remember the famous black triangle? Do you really not know what happened in that region?

[Digiital]

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't anyone find it stupid to cram 20,000 into a dome. Have the rest of the city evacuated because you know this is going to be nasty storm. Then not be prepared to have 20,000 sh*ing and peeing with no hydro and no water and have this go on for a few days.

I don't know, but I just think that idea was just plan stupid.
Plus the whole idea of building a city that close to the ocean below sea level. And Hurricanes aren't something new. It was bound to happen that something more then a Cat 2 or 3 was going to hit the area.



Exactly. These people were not STRANDED, they were evacuated to shelters....I understood that. Please tell me where I thought that they were left helpless to fend for themselves. All I was saying was that at least they could survive on things that the people of New Orleans do NOT have. But a bursted pipe to a potentially flooded basement seems to be trivial in comparison. But of course I know nothing about the ice storm.....I always argue about things I know nothing about.

[Exmortis]

Another good example of great disaster response and effective evacuation is the train derailment of 1979. Evacuations began two hours after the explosion and 218,000 residents of Mississauga were evacuated.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't anyone find it stupid to cram 20,000 into a dome. Have the rest of the city evacuated because you know this is going to be nasty storm. Then not be prepared to have 20,000 sh*ing and peeing with no hydro and no water and have this go on for a few days.

It does seem silly, however there was really no other option. At least the people that had no one they could rely on had something...somewhere they could go to. But yeah, stinky situation at best.

I don't know, but I just think that idea was just plan stupid.
Plus the whole idea of building a city that close to the ocean below sea level. And Hurricanes aren't something new. It was bound to happen that something more then a Cat 2 or 3 was going to hit the area.

How bizarre....I was just thinking that this morning.....building a city that close to those dangers....was really not a genius at work was it?

I guess my only major complaint is that people knew it was coming and so many died for such a silly reason. How is it possible that no one could get anywhere safe or the people that had the options and the means to leave...didn't?.

When people were looting....if they wanted to steal something....steal buses, truck vans and transports....and get the people out that had no means to get out and give them a chance and gift of life.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Give it up. I don't care whether you agree or not. What I will care about is what you're trying to imply on me. That never happened. I challenge you to prove otherwise. Don't act all surprised when someone reacts to a personal jab.

My personal jab Ex started when you told me to re-read your post. Maybe you should re-read the posts. Now at this point it does not matter what I say you are going to continue to personally attack me. As for you to challenge me ot prove otherwise.....we are both guilty of interpreting what we thought was being suggested......But I do love how you argue in circles in order to make yourself seem all mighty and superior. Whatever gets you thru the day Ex, whatever gets you thru.

You have taken a situation where I asked you a question based on your opinion and you turned it into the usual little web that you do. Sorry if what I have said seems like a personal attack. But I don't know you nor do I care to based on what I have seen. But if my poor lil words have managed to hurt you and lead you to believe that I have made a personal attack on someone I do not know, maybe you should re-evaluate your time and placement online if you cannot take a criticism and confuse that as a personal attack.

[I LIKE EGGS]

But please Ex tell me where I was personally attacking you....was it the dingus comment....that was sarcasm.....hence the smilie. Was just trying to state the fact that you told ME to re-read, when in fact it was YOU that needed to re-read. Then when you are put in a corner and challenged, you say "I don't care if you agreed" when if fact you DO care, or you would not have retorted.

[Exmortis]

And to think... You're the one who used the "attacked" word first. I decided to make much out of it, but you just can't let go the fact that I decidedto use it too since you did. You have to make a personal psychological analysis and imply more stuff like I'm trying to make myself all mighty and superior.

Quite frankly, I don't know how many times I can say "I don't care" before you get it. If you think I got hurt, more power to you. I'm out of this thread now 'cause Eggs has this tendency of ruining everything he gets into.

[I LIKE EGGS]

And to think... You're the one who used the "attacked" word first. I decided to make much out of it, but you just can't let go the fact that I decidedto use it too since you did. You have to make a personal psychological analysis and imply more stuff like I'm trying to make myself all mighty and superior.

Quite frankly, I don't know how many times I can say "I don't care" before you get it. If you think I got hurt, more power to you. I'm out of this thread now 'cause Eggs has this tendency of ruining everything he gets into.

I could care less if you used my words. Just seemed like both of you (You and Quin) were "have at-ing it" with me. Just my opinion......just like yours. You challenge me to an explanation...I give it...and it is never good enough. I am also entitled to interpret anything anyway I read what you post until otherwise stated. I gave my interpretation of what "seemed to be" as opposed to what is. So the lies you are implying are based on what I understood. But you take that as a personal attack.....there there.

Sorry Ex if I am not one of your noble followers and chose to agree with everything you are saying. Just because you say it does not make it so. That being said I too am entitled to my opinions just as you are. However now you are implying that I ruin everything post based on the fact that you do not agree with what I say in posts. That to me is really childish.

Well thank you for your words of encouragement. I look forward to following you around every post (and not responding....only learning...educating myself) so that I too can be a benefactor in responses to posts such as yourself instead of ruining it for you or everyone for that matter. Although you may have taken yourself off of this post, I know you will be back....if not to comment....but at least to read what I have said. That is just who you are....and I am not here to judge that.

Just remember Ex you personally attack just as much as I do. Nobody is perfect.