File sharing what you think...

[xspider]

Ok I'm not saying file sharing is right. But from what I hard on tv that even if file sharing was stoped 100% that would not help them a lot. They said that people are buy 1 or 2 songs instead of the whole cd online.

So what do you think should they go ahead and update the copyright law?

Or

Should they leave the way it is? If you go with this one then write, and call your local MP.

Here's a few other question for you.

1. How would this help you? (the updating of the copyright law)

2. Will it help the job market?

3. Will it help feed the homeless?

4. Does the gov help other companys like this?

5. When you out of a job how much help does the gov give you?

So answer all the above questions if your for changing the copyright law.

If you think it's a waste of time updating th copyright law then again e-mail, write by canada post, and fax plus call your local MP.

[Bogie]

Well, xspider .....

1. How would this help you? (the updating of the copyright law)
This is already covered by Copyright laws. The very word "COPY RIGHT" means just that. The RIGHT to COPY belongs to the original property owner - whether or not you bought a copy. You cannot copy an artist's "print" and distribute it - for free or profit, same goes here.

2. Will it help the job market?
Hard to say - minimal impact - but what does this have to do with things?

3. Will it help feed the homeless?
Eh? How does this relate, at all?

4. Does the gov help other companys like this?
The government's job is to protect the economy and to uphold laws. "Copyright" is a legal situation. "File sharing" is a very large infringement, and challenge, on that Copyright.

5. When you out of a job how much help does the gov give you?
Employment Insurance, job training, source of searching for jobs, employment assistance centres ... the list goes on.

[AMD]

We discussed this before the database crash - move on to something more important.

[Exmortis]

But from what I hard on tv that even if file sharing was stoped 100% that would not help them a lot.

File sharing is not only used for piracy. There are growing legitimate use of the Torrent network by commercial companies to distribute patches, demos, etc. World Of Warcraft, for instance, uses Torrent to send out their patches.

So no. They cannot simply shut down file sharing.

[Fezzik]

Canada has alway had "fair use" laws to allow you to video tape TV shows, make a mixed tape to listen to in the car, back up your record to tape for protection of the original.

The proposed new law will prevent all of that when it comes to digital media. The new law prohibits the breaking of any protection schemes for any reason. This is the only part of the law that bothers me. If I pay to purchase a CD, for example, I believe I should be able to listen to it on any device I wish, MP3 player, CD player, computer etc.

I am a firm believer in protecting artists from theft of their intellectual property but I also think we need a "fair use" law to protect consumers as well.

Fezz

[Exmortis]

Canada has alway had "fair use" laws to allow you to video tape TV shows, make a mixed tape to listen to in the car, back up your record to tape for protection of the original.

Correction. The "Fair Use Act" is only in the US and it's an act, not a set of laws. And if you read it, it's mainly aimed at schools and libraries.

[Fezzik]

Correction. The "Fair Use Act" is only in the US and it's an act, not a set of laws. And if you read it, it's mainly aimed at schools and libraries.
I stand corrected.
However, I assume that no one in Canada has ever been sued or arrested for making a cassette tape of their favorite album. I fear that I might if I try to put a CD on my MP3 player after this law goes through!

Fezz

[Exmortis]

However, I assume that no one in Canada has ever been sued or arrested for making a cassette tape of their favorite album. I fear that I might if I try to put a CD on my MP3 player after this law goes through!

Our copyright laws already have some provisions regarding this. The "Fair Use Act" was mainly to allow schools, universities, colleges, libraries, etc, to photocopy parts of books for academic/educational purposes. That was at the heart of the original case, but its definition included recorded material as well. Funny thing is, we pretty much already had that in place in Canada. :)

[justabitcrazee]

maybe if CD's werent so expensive, for that ONE song, I would buy them.

[Fezzik]

Our copyright laws already have some provisions regarding this. The "Fair Use Act" was mainly to allow schools, universities, colleges, libraries, etc, to photocopy parts of books for academic/educational purposes. That was at the heart of the original case, but its definition included recorded material as well. Funny thing is, we pretty much already had that in place in Canada. :)
I am curious to see how they reconcile the old copyright laws with the new ones.

Fezz

[gollychuck]

The way they are going This machine will make a good anchor.

[Bogie]

Unlike the U.S., Canada, more or less, has stated that digital media can be treated the same way as traditional media. Copyright is Copyright, no matter how you look at it. I doubt very much that you will be arrested for copying your purchased tape to CD for personal use. Law enforcement is more concerned with distributors of illegally copied "copyrighted" material.

U.S. lawyers enjoying creating a new market for themselves. They work on percentages, cut-of-the-pie, fees, or whatever. Canadian lawyers are paid on a fee basis and cannot "ambulance-chase" like the US ones do. "Free enterprise" is alive and well in the US legal system.

Reminds me of the recent Spitzer "witch hunt" in the US insurance business that is demanding full disclosure of all fees, monies, etc. That put the Canadian insurance industry on the defensive, without just cause. For some reason most people forget that we are a separate country, politically, legally, and in many other ways.

The media is more to blame than anything else. They love controversy.

We already have laws in place to cover copyright. It is up to the people, who own the copyright, to see that it is enforced. Plain and simple.

[Athlon_9800]

If they made all cd's $10, I would buy them a lot more often. I try to buy cd's if I like the band, but I can't justify it for one song that I can get for free, not if the cd is $20. I don't like piracy much nor the people that take part in it, but everyone pirates music, I like to buy cd's to help out the bands that I enjoy listening to.

[AMD]

but I can't justify it for one song that I can get for free

That's what iTunes/Pure tracks/Paid napster is for.

[xspider]

What I was trying to say with "How would this help you? (the updating of the copyright law)" will they make muisc cd's cheaper, will they make dvd's cheaper, or will it make the game cd's cheaper. Seems to me the price is going up, and up. The copyright law has changed in the us, but the price of music cd's, dvd's, games still same or higher. Acording to my friend that live's in the US. I myself think copying is wrong, but if just a small group of poeple profit from it. As in the Rich people then that's not good. If we all profit from the change right down to the poor person then that's all right.


2. Will it help the job market?
Hard to say - minimal impact - but what does this have to do with things?

Your 100% right there will be minimal impact for us, and we pay for it one way or another.


3. Will it help feed the homeless?
Eh? How does this relate, at all?

That's my point it does not. There's people on the street that could use a lot help. Our health care is going down. The other day I was looking for a new family doctor, and over 15 family doctors that are near me are not taking any one new. hospital are very slow. one time I took my Mom in for a problem that the family doctor could not handle. Anyways to get a doctor to look at her, and get her into a bed for her stay. It took about 12hr's, but yet the Gov. closed down hospital's. But yet the Gov taking care of companys that are making over $100B a year. Wonder how many have to die before they fix the health care system.



4. Does the gov help other companys like this?
The government's job is to protect the economy and to uphold laws. "Copyright" is a legal situation. "File sharing" is a very large infringement, and challenge, on that Copyright.

Your missing my point. When companys closed down, because there taxes are to much for them. The gov does not seem to give them a tax break. I have a friend that's almost out of a job, and he is a single Dad. With a Loan to pay off, and kids to feed. But yet again do you see the gov coming in to help. No! Company's like the one my friend is working for I guess in a way are crying that there losing money. But does the gov. change some law to help companys to stay open, and keep all the worker's. I have yet to see it.


5. When you out of a job how much help does the gov give you?
Employment Insurance, job training, source of searching for jobs, employment assistance centres ... the list goes on.

Yes the Gov does give the above service, but from all the 150 poeple that lost there job from the company that I was working for are still looking. Only about 25% of them have a job. But 75% are still looking like me.

I think the gov should change the copyright laws, but only after they fix the problems that I said above. Plus get the city back to what we can call a great city. Something near the way it was in the past, but better. I love Toronto, and it really sucks on what it's becoming.


Well, xspider .....

1. How would this help you? (the updating of the copyright law)
This is already covered by Copyright laws. The very word "COPY RIGHT" means just that. The RIGHT to COPY belongs to the original property owner - whether or not you bought a copy. You cannot copy an artist's "print" and distribute it - for free or profit, same goes here.

2. Will it help the job market?
Hard to say - minimal impact - but what does this have to do with things?

3. Will it help feed the homeless?
Eh? How does this relate, at all?

4. Does the gov help other companys like this?
The government's job is to protect the economy and to uphold laws. "Copyright" is a legal situation. "File sharing" is a very large infringement, and challenge, on that Copyright.

5. When you out of a job how much help does the gov give you?
Employment Insurance, job training, source of searching for jobs, employment assistance centres ... the list goes on.

[xspider]

Your right, but we say nothing they will shut them down. Maybe even turn around, and charge a service of some sort for you to pay for using file share.


File sharing is not only used for piracy. There are growing legitimate use of the Torrent network by commercial companies to distribute patches, demos, etc. World Of Warcraft, for instance, uses Torrent to send out their patches.

So no. They cannot simply shut down file sharing.

[xspider]

Your also right, and that's one of the many reasons we should all get together, and do something. Or else we are all SOL. Someone poeple do not see the big picture. But you FEZZIK you do, and I'm happy. So can we agree to get together to fix this before it's to late.


Canada has alway had "fair use" laws to allow you to video tape TV shows, make a mixed tape to listen to in the car, back up your record to tape for protection of the original.

The proposed new law will prevent all of that when it comes to digital media. The new law prohibits the breaking of any protection schemes for any reason. This is the only part of the law that bothers me. If I pay to purchase a CD, for example, I believe I should be able to listen to it on any device I wish, MP3 player, CD player, computer etc.

I am a firm believer in protecting artists from theft of their intellectual property but I also think we need a "fair use" law to protect consumers as well.

Fezz

[xspider]

Ya will that's gred. They want more money, and more money. So that's one of the reason there a lot of file copying I think..


maybe if CD's werent so expensive, for that ONE song, I would buy them.

[Mike]

If you totally stopped file sharing, the music industry would be impacted. I know friends who download albums to listen to them and if they like it then they go out and buy it. Not everyone just downloads music, it has a huge impact on music sales and from what I can see, it's positive. Now, if the Government stepped in to stop piracy, it would just be a waste of money because people who want to pirate will pirate. Just look at the RIAA's efforts, did it stop piracy? nope.

[xspider]

I did not think of this one Mike. Well I guess you, and your friends should get together. Start calling , and righting your local MP's as often as you can. Or the Government will change the law, and your friends plus everyone else will be SOL. I myself have friend in HMV that can get me music cd's with his discount. Not sure if he get's 10% or 20% off. Anyway's I think our Government is not thinking, and is just copying what the US does. If they copy the health care system that the US has we will be SOL in all area's. There a lot real thing's that the gov. can be focusing on like Jobless rate, crime (gun's, drug's, and other thing's that kill). Someone copying a cd is not going to kill anyone. Beside's most artist's out there get a small cut, because of the record company that takes more then they need. If artist would like to make more money they should put up there own web site, and sell there stuff there. I'm sure they will make more money that way.




If you totally stopped file sharing, the music industry would be impacted. I know friends who download albums to listen to them and if they like it then they go out and buy it. Not everyone just downloads music, it has a huge impact on music sales and from what I can see, it's positive. Now, if the Government stepped in to stop piracy, it would just be a waste of money because people who want to pirate will pirate. Just look at the RIAA's efforts, did it stop piracy? nope.

[frostyone]

"Beside's most artist's out there get a small cut,"

So let's steal his work, so he gets nothing hahaha.
That'll help the homeless.

Let's deprive the government of tax revenue from sales.
That'll help the homeless.

Why don't you think of the homeless while you're stealing ?

Spare me the sanctimonious b.s, .

[MSE OP]

music stores will go under, along with video rental places, the net has made them old fashioned
I haven't bought a cd in over a year
nor rented a movie in about that same time
only way to save the music industry is to build a time machine and prevent the mp3 format from being invented
if I realy like a music artist I can always send them money through paypal, that way it goes right to them and not greedy record companies

[Law]

This is just rediculous, why did you start another thread exactly the same as one you already posted in this forum and another right before the board crash?

you clearly dont understand that different ministires work on Health and a different one for such things as copyright, and another for somethign else.

Dealing with the piracy issues will not hold up health care at all. That is why asking how it will effect the homeless and those who just lost their jobs is irrelevant.

What is clear though is the fact that you are only concerned about the fact that you may not be alowed to steal music and movies by downloading them from the internet anymore. That is your only concern and it shows.

[Law]

http://thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1462


Does this thread look familiar?

[Al_Kendrick]

maybe if CD's werent so expensive, for that ONE song, I would buy them.

Maybe the artist(s) should start making better music, so there is more than one good song on a cd!! :hys:

[xspider]

Well all I have to say is do nothing about the copyright law right now. Then scream ***** how bad it is after they change it. That's why Toronto is going down bit by bit. No one care's about anything. Say something now to your local MP's not to me to the MP's.

[xspider]

Well Frostyone as I side above the artist's should open there own web site, and sell there music, t-shirts, hat's etc... They would make more money. The tax revenue that they get from cds, dvd's, games. Your lucky if we see 3% of it. Try this ask everyone you know that does not have a job what the Government doing to helping them. And if it helped. Also ask poeple that are over 65yr's when property tax went up. Where was the Tax revenue to help them out. I know of one old person on my street that had to sell her home that she lived in for over 40 years. She just could not afford it after they changed the property tax. That's way I said they should put this copyright tax thing aside until they fix all other problems. The problem with the music companys now are that they are no longer getting as much CD sales. Why? Because now online you can buy one or two song's from that cd. So form $20 for a cd it's gone done to $0.99 per song. A New York tv show said if file sharing stop today it will not help the music companys, because of the online shopping of music of one or two songs INSTEAD of BUY THE WHOLE CD. People automaticly point there finger to file sharing as the problem.



"Beside's most artist's out there get a small cut,"

So let's steal his work, so he gets nothing hahaha.
That'll help the homeless.

Let's deprive the government of tax revenue from sales.
That'll help the homeless.

Why don't you think of the homeless while you're stealing ?

Spare me the sanctimonious b.s, .

[xspider]

What is clear though is the fact that you are only concerned about the fact that you may not be alowed to steal music and movies by downloading them from the internet anymore. That is your only concern and it shows.

I guess your not seeing the my point. If they want to change the copyright they can go ahead. But before they do so they should fix more important problems out there as I said above, and the other post that you pointed out. Plus look at the US they changed the copyright laws how much has it help there sales in the Music , dvd movie, games etc. Seems to me from what I read it's more or less the same. They just found a new market of putting fines on people that download. But aside from that it's still the same. If you know anyone in the US ask them to ask everyone they know if the change of the copy right has helped.


This is just rediculous, why did you start another thread exactly the same as one you already posted in this forum and another right before the board crash?

you clearly dont understand that different ministires work on Health and a different one for such things as copyright, and another for somethign else.

Dealing with the piracy issues will not hold up health care at all. That is why asking how it will effect the homeless and those who just lost their jobs is irrelevant.

What is clear though is the fact that you are only concerned about the fact that you may not be alowed to steal music and movies by downloading them from the internet anymore. That is your only concern and it shows.

[xspider]

Even if you buy the music, and you break or crack the digtal protection on it you will be in trouble. So if no one cares to do anything about it then everyone pays for it. The people that BUY there music online, or the people that steal it. Some people that posted on this thread had said it they download music off of file sharing then if they like it they go out, and BUY the cd. If copyright law get's changed then I guess sales will go down...

[Tim]

I find the whole thing a wee bit ironic. First everyone yells and hollers about the CPCC setting up a system where it made it actually technically legal to rip CDs, and/or make a 'private copy'. Now it appears we are possibly about to see a... er... alternative idea.

I wonder just how many who like to trumpet the let the artist get more money actually give artists 'more money'.

Not very many I bet...
;)

[xspider]

Well I do not know what to say, but we have to fight for our right's. People think that this new copyright Law only effect's the file sharing people out there. But it will also affect the people that paid for there music if they try to remove the digital protection they put on it when you pay for it. So you it's a no win thing. But most of the people on the board seem to think it does not effect them. Sorry to go back to the rogers thing. When rogers changed the web space service, mail service, news service. I tryed getting people to do something, and all they could say to me was. Leave rogers, and go to someone else. As for the news service they said just PAY for another news service out there. Thing is you look the other way companys like rogers say thank you. Even if you think you can not make a change you should still try. Because there maybe people out there that have no choice but to take what is hadded to them. Even if they think it's wrong. I know everyone going to still tell me Leave rogers, and as for the copyright law they will tell me you just want to be free to download what you want. No that's not the case.

Ok let's just say your a good boxer like Ali, and you see someone that's getting the sh--t kick out of them. I guess you would just turn arond, and walk away. But if your the type a person that would like to fight for the right's for every Man or Women out there. You would jump into that fight, and stop the fight.

Well if you did not get my point not sure how else to put it. Everyone should fight for there rights. It might come a time that there something that you might feel strong about, but everyone will do the same thing in all the past msg left above this one. Just turn way say something it does not effect you. Well if it does, and you do nothing then O well your SOL. But if you do something at the very least you can say I did something to help..


Tim sorry to vent, but it seems like we plus few other's care. Thanks hope everyone will fight this new copyright law. And any other thing out there that you may not think is right..

------

I find the whole thing a wee bit ironic. First everyone yells and hollers about the CPCC setting up a system where it made it actually technically legal to rip CDs, and/or make a 'private copy'. Now it appears we are possibly about to see a... er... alternative idea.

I wonder just how many who like to trumpet the let the artist get more money actually give artists 'more money'.

Not very many I bet...
;)

[Tim]

Well I'm certainly all for protecting an artists rights, being a member of SOCAN sure I'd like to make more. I think people see the issue as black and white, and some, (not all) tend to be a little self-serving when pulling out the many 'benefits' of file sharing. I don't dispute these, but I would personally like to see a copyright structure in place that would allow artists (or song rights holders) be able to customize their 'copyright' allowing or disallowing as they see fit. Sort of making a better version of creative commons.

[xspider]

Well Tim. It's nice hear someone's protecting the rights of the artists out there. But who protect's the artists from the record companys that leech a good sum of money off of them? I'm willing to bet if artist out there would setup a record company of there own, and pay just a small fee like $40/m something like that. They would make a whole lot more money. The reason I'm venting so much is I'm have a hard time finding a job in the computer area. But everytime I check to see if there's any new programs that the gov provides I try them out. But have not luck, and as for the past 24 weeks there's nothing more that the gov can do for me. I'm working two part time job's, and by the time I pay my bill's I have next to nothing. Last week pay checks I had a total of $25.32 left for food for the week. From the time I lost my computer job I've lost 90LB, and that's not from working out. That's from not be able to afford buying food. So everyone that's posted on this topic would have to for give for all my venting. After all the gov only went so far. I always wonder where's the gov when company's close down for good or they move out of toronto.

Well not sure if you or anyone out there seen that show called cribs on muchmusic. Well if you did not then look it up on the tv guide, and try to watch it every week. Then tell me if artists are short of money. I've seen a report on tv saying that if file sharing would stop today. They still would not make money they want. Because people are only buying 1 to 3 song's on the net for around $0.99 each. Aside from the whole cd that cost any where from $15 to $26.

Well look when windows 95 came out, and IBM had OS2 /warp out at the same time. The sales for Microsoft was so high that they crashed OS2/warp. Not because windows 95 was better the os2/warp it was because Microsoft had better marketing. So if the Record company/artist had better marketing they would make more money.

The changing of the copyright law will not make a diff. if they do not work on there marketing. Look at the US they've changed the copyright law has that made more moeny for the music companys, gaming companys, or dvd (movie sales). From the Cnn story last night on tv I would have to say no.

But if you or anyone else have friends in the US e-mail them, and ask them if the copyright law help them. Taking the average Joe that get's pull in to court to be fine, and what not. There not make money buy that. The average lawyer charges over $200 an hour. Then there's the fee for using the court, and so how much have they made out of that.

I would not maid if they paid me to post fake music, dvd movies, games on the file sharing. I think that's how you would slow down or stop the file sharing. if I got paid to post fake stuff up on file sharing I'd be happy to do it.

Once again to you TIM, and everyone else please do not come down hard on me. I'm just venting from money problems. If anyone would like to lead a hand $$ please private msg me, and I'll can give you a link to my paypal account. Which I think I might not have open for long. Once my credit card get's pull off me.. Sorry everyone....


Well I'm certainly all for protecting an artists rights, being a member of SOCAN sure I'd like to make more. I think people see the issue as black and white, and some, (not all) tend to be a little self-serving when pulling out the many 'benefits' of file sharing. I don't dispute these, but I would personally like to see a copyright structure in place that would allow artists (or song rights holders) be able to customize their 'copyright' allowing or disallowing as they see fit. Sort of making a better version of creative commons.

[Tim]

Well Tim. It's nice hear someone's protecting the rights of the artists out there. But who protect's the artists from the record companys that leech a good sum of money off of them? I'm willing to bet if artist out there would setup a record company of there own, and pay just a small fee like $40/m something like that. They would make a whole lot more money.

I'm afraid your hard luck story isn't an excuse. I've lived it and a whole lot worse while I was on the road with a single on the radio on an indie label. I still didn't steal.
Who is protecting the artists from the majors? Well until everyone STFU and put their money where their mouth is and buy from indies instead of pouring the majority of revenues into the majors.... no one.

[xspider]

Well Tim the last time I download music from the net was little over 1 year if not more. Lucky for me my friends gives me cd's on my B-day direct from HMV. But if you think that the new copyright law is going to help you well let's wait, and see. I think there will be little or no change. Just mark my word's down Tim it may help maybe. But I think it will not, and I do not know why everyone turns around tell's me that I just what to copy music. I do not, and if I had to guess why people download music or dvd's or games. Maybe they charge a lot for it. Well Tim I've been in, and I've been in/out of hospital's they still have no idea pain that I have on my side. I'm taking T2's like there candy, and just this past friday they told me that if it's what they think it is I will need to go under the knife. I told them do not give the details if it will help me I told them let's do it. So I wish you good luck, and hope you never have to experience my life. There just somethings I do not wish to speak of to people I do not know. Only family members know how much pain me, and my family went through. So Tim I'm not saying that your life worse then main or better then main. I told my hard luck story so poeple would not come down hard on me that's all. I'm not using it as a excuse, and I'm sorry if you think I am. I wish you good luck, and I hope you sell a ton of your song's. I guess I still have not over my Mom's death this past June. I wish I was in good health, and working soon. I'm not sure if I can make this clear or not, and in case it's not I'm sorry in advance. Now again about the copyright law I think it's not going to help. Do you have a web site with your music on it. I was wondering if there's anywhere I can hear a sample of your music. I'll let my friends know, and if they like it they will buy your tune's.


I'm afraid your hard luck story isn't an excuse. I've lived it and a whole lot worse while I was on the road with a single on the radio on an indie label. I still didn't steal.
Who is protecting the artists from the majors? Well until everyone STFU and put their money where their mouth is and buy from indies instead of pouring the majority of revenues into the majors.... no one.

[xspider]

Well for everyone that has Techtv on roger's it's ch250 6pm on call for help.. Anyways they will be having a guest that will take about the new copyright law in Canada. Be sure you see it.

[xspider]

Few questions.

1. Has the copyright law help the US? , and before you say yes try to e-mail any friends that you have in the US to find out..

2. Do you think it will or will not help us here in Canada?