immigrants should adapt

[Taz]

Got this in a email today

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be Canada if we
continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other
countries that came to live in Canada because it is the Country of
Choice?????? Think about it!
All we have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?

I celebrate Christmas...........but because it isn't celebrated by
everyone..............we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has
to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter
Break.
Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas
holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not
offend
anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a
problem with that. This says it all !

This is an editorial written by an
Toronto newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS,
NOT Canadians
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist
attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the
majority of Canadians. However...... the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining
about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone
who is seeking a better life by coming to Canada Our population is
almost entirely made up of descedants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of Canada being a
multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and
our national identity. As Canadians....... we have our own culture, our
own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has
been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by
millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH/FRENCH , not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese,
Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society, learn the language!
"We Stand On Guard For Thee" is our national motto. This is not some
Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women.......on Christian principles.............
founded this nation..... and this is clearly documented.
It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the
world as your new home.........because God is part of our culture.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we
really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.
But once you are done complaining....... whining...... and
griping....... about our flag....... our pledge...... our national
motto........or our way of life....I highly encourage you to
take advantage of one other Great Canadian Freedom.......

THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.


It is Time for Canada to Speak up
If you agree -- pass this along;
if you don't agree -- delete it!

AMEN

I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends
(and enemies) it will also, sooner or later
get back to the complainers, lets all try,
please

[Frogy]

Definately controversial but on the point at the same time. If we change what people were attracted to in the first place we are no longer what we were that caused the attraction. Unfortunately, as our numbers are diluted, those that arrive have a greater influence on our society.

[Mouse]

Phew. :ibi:

For a second, I thought you said "immigrants should adopt".

I didn't think they were having any problems in 'that' area.

[Yogi]

This has been circulating for some time on the web.

Walter and Tim will have fun with this one :d

[Mouse]

True, but it will have to wait 'till about 5:00 tomorrow morning. :)

[Quintin]

Well let's face it folks it's immigrants that don't share the wasp or catholic views that need to adapt..........LOL

[Frogy]

Phew. :ibi:

For a second, I thought you said "immigrants should adopt".

I didn't think they were having any problems in 'that' area.




This has been circulating for some time on the web.

Walter and Tim will have fun with this one :d





Well let's face it folks it's immigrants that don't share the wasp or catholic views that need to adapt..........LOL



Go figure, I couldn't have summed it up better.:)

[Nave]

i just think that are points where it goes too far. such as the shiek (sp?) sorry if i spelt that wrong, but not taking off the turban for your safety, then striking about it.... or becoming a mounty and not wearing the uniform. come on...

[Frogy]

i just think that are points where it goes too far. such as the shiek (sp?) sorry if i spelt that wrong, but not taking off the turban for your safety, then striking about it.... or becoming a mounty and not wearing the uniform. come on...


There are arguments for many positions on this, as mentioned we have other religious considerations as to faith influences in family affairs. Allowing that influence sustains the division of church and state and to avail it to one group and not another is definately unequal.

[Mr. Apollo]

I think it's true to a certain extent. When my great-grandparents came over they told they're children (my grandparents) "We are in Canada now so we will do things the way they do." They learned English and started following Canada customs and regulations. They didn't forget their heritage but being Canadian was first and foremost in their mind.

I might get flack for this but I don't understand how Muslim women who wear a burka can get a drvier's license. I mean if a police officer pulls them over and asks to see ID, how does the officer know that it really is who it's supposed to be? All you can see is their eyes. I've seen them driving school busses and cars so I know they get licenses.

[networkguy]

I guess one of the underlying questions in the article is this:

Should Canada change to accommodate immigrants or should immigrants change to accommodate their new home?

NG

[Swordfish]

I guess one of the underlying questions in the article is this:

Should Canada change to accommodate immigrants or should immigrants change to accommodate their new home?

NG

IMO No why should we? its our country we would not get away with this if we went over there so why should we bow to them?

Canada is Canada and it should not change to accommodate someone else.

[simplysic]

nice article...a bit strong but a good read imo.

I am an immigrant, from India and I'm Catholic (Catholic Indians make up about only 2% of India's 1.2 billion).

I grew up in school having a Christmas break in a predominantly Hindu society but I think Canada is on the right track on political correctiness when they witness it as WINTER BREAK. Why?...

IMO, Canada proclaims itself as being the worlds most diverse country which is an amazing feat. We'r home to not just ONE religion/culture. Christmas might b a celebration of the majority of Canadians but for the minority- they should not be left out. Do we have a Ramadan break? or any other holiday based on a religion? I think its part n parcel Canada serves the Xmas holiday as a winter break because it has taken the title of diversity upon itself. Canada should be an example of this diversity when it comes to how it deals with the people as well.

We're ruining Canada's culture?
The government regulates immigration thru investments. Somewhere down the road someone saw it as a good thing to let people into the country to work and have a better life. Why is any family supposed to change its cultural values and views for the sake of moving to Canada? Its fair that people should kno the language and be aware of the tradition and culture that exists here but its unfair that they change their way of life just to FIT IN. Canada's culture is not lost and it never will be. But as hours tick away and history is written, people are changing their perception of Canada. It is the dream of mankind to see people of all colours live together in harmony. Canada is and should be a country that is welcoming and a great place to live in. Her rich history will never be forgotten, and neither will it be erased. It's just that we're moving to be a better nation, one which has more tolerance than others.


How is that a bad thing?

[Frogy]

Well said simplysic.

[Dr.Dan]

"We are in Canada now so we will do things the way they do." They learned English and started following Canada customs and regulations. They didn't forget their heritage but being Canadian was first and foremost in their mind.
EXACTLY! :xcc:
Don't forget where you came from... but don't bring it with you.
You came to Canada to get away from the ways of your old world... but you still want to live in the same way.
So what happens?!? The fights and wars follow them :rolleyes:

A rule for immigrants to Canada should be to check your hate for others at the door. Too many so called 'gang wars' are between immigrants that are doing things the way they did back home... hating each other. This has to stop before Canada becomes another middle east with wars on the streets. :mad:

This is not to say that all immigrants are this way... many do adapt to our ways... they remember that they came here to get away from the violance.
And if that means changing what you wear to fit in; they do it.

[Yogi]

I don't have a problem with immigrants bringing their culture here. That's what makes Toronto an interesting and culturally diverse place. We have different districts (i.e. Little India, Little Italy, Greektown etc.) and I'm all for that.

Having said that, those immigrants that bring their hatred here should be turfed out on the first flight back to their native country. No ifs and buts. The same applies if you commit a crime and are convicted. Out you go.

[Bogie]

Boy, lots of arguments and dialogue to be had on both sides.

We are a country of immigrants, no matter how far you go back. Our "native" population (aboriginals), from what has been determined, came from Asia. They came to a land that belonged to no one. Their settlements sprung up without any real organization as a "country", "tribes" claiming territories as their own.

Europeans arrived and took these various territories from them and organized it all into a country. Quite often with violence, and changing their ways and culture.

But this could be classified more as aggression, or "war" - forceable annexation at that time. Such is history in all areas of our globe.

So we cannot claim to be totally innocent of "demanding change" ourselves (our European ancestors).

What is happening now is that we (and our past family-lines) have created a relatively safe, prosperous, and desired place to live, under a free society. Aggression is not our way of life here in Canada (please, no comparisons to ongoing Iraq war, etc.). We are an accommodating and complacent society, trying to understand the needs, wants, and cultures, of ongoing immigration. But we now do this "to a fault".

Original immigration was in the form of colonization and a "new land" to build-upon. Immigration that followed, after this "new land" (Canada and the US) was created, realized that they had to adapt to this new way of life - and gladly conformed. You did not have to give up your religion, or basic culture, but you did have to comply with the laws of this "new land". You came for a better life.

Our language is either English or French (or Spanish in the US), and our government runs on both languages. Expect to learn one of these two languages and live in an area where that language is primary. You do not have to stop speaking your mother-tongue, you do not have to stop going to your place of worship (as our country has all places of worship available - freely built by immigrants before you), you do not have to lose your culture altogether. But you do have to adapt any of your cultural ways that conflict with the overall governed society that you have chosen to adopt by coming here and reaping the benefits of.

If the reason you crossed the lake was because the grass was greener, the people were free to live and move about, you would no longer be oppressed, you would have more opportunities to prosper and live healthier, then why try and change it when you get here? The logic escapes me.

Don't join a hockey team then demand that you should be able to use a baseball bat to move the puck - because, where you came from, they did - but only you will be using the baseball bat. Silly comparison, but I think you see my point.

Our society was formed on Christianity. Don't tell me that my children can no longer profess their faith, because it conflicts with yours. We allow separate schools in our country. Start one of your own - we wish you success.

Don't tell me that we have to remove "God" from anything we say. If you don't want to say it, then don't! But don't expect the rest of us to eliminate our culture because of yours. Don't expect us to change our culture and laws, that made our country the "opportunity" that you desired. Expect to have to change a bit to benefit from what we have to offer. Freedom and prosperity.

Please come. Our doors are receptive to immigration. Bring your knowledge and expertise, your friendliness and helping hand, to "continue" the growth for all our collective well-being ... based on our "winning formula" that made you choose our country.

[felixtrio]

This rant looks very similar to one that was created in the USA.

Step back and look at history. Rome was the cat's meow 2000 years ago. It was the place to go. To become a Roman citizen was the ideal for a lot of non-roman peoples. There was wealth, power and security to be obtained. Many of these peoples brought with them their cultures and language. The Roman's birthrate dropped so there was the need for "immigration" and acceptance of non-romans into their society.

The same is happening here today.

Rome also took their language and culture to other parts of their empire. Look at their legacy. Europeans and Americans have benefit of this legacy. Look at the English language. It is a language that has many external influences. Look at the creation on the European languages. A blend of the different ethic groups and latin.

To attack immigrants coming to Canada because they bring some of their culture with them is totally wrong. We are all decendents of immigrants. I take exception if some closed minded red neck takes a swing at my ancestry.

I guess one solution to the supposed immigration problem would be to have more children. How many of you or your wives want to have 6, 7 or 8 kids? Not many!

Without immigration, who is going to contribute to your pensions and benefits when you retire?

Oh well, I could go on and on. Intolerance is not acceptable. We have seen its dark side and it is ugly.

Felix
(cat in latin)

[Nuke]

I never comment in this forum, but today will by my first.

In response to felixtrio's post: I think immigrants should be able to live the way they wish in terms of their culture and religion, however, I don't think they should have any right whatsoever to demand that Canada be changed to suit them. If they want to visit a place of worship that is different than mine, I have no problem with that at all. If they want to eat different food, speak a different language, or wear different clothing, that's 100% fine too just as long as they aren't trying to get me to do the same thing. I'm sick of all of this "political correctness" bs to be quite honest. Getting rid of christmas break and adding "winter break" is pleasing a group of non-christmas celebrators but is offending a lot of the people who celebrate christmas, so why do they get priority? I would rather see their holiday added than mine taken away.

As for the story from a while back about not wanting to wear construction hats due to their religion and the need for their own head covering, get another job. If you don't like it, don't work there. Don't expect everyone to start making exceptions for you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's a collective response from all of these type of posts. I have no problem with other cultures and religions, I just don't like it when they try to change the way I live to suit them. :) That aside, I agree 100% with your post Bogie.

[Nuke]

I used to know a few people who immigrated from different countries that would constantly preach about the way things were done where they came from and how Canada sucks and how Canada should do the things that they do, the way they do them. I think all of these people should LEAVE and go back to where they came from if it's so much better.

In regards to Yogi's post: I agree with you. If immigrants come here and start committing crimes they should be exported immediately.

[Yogi]

I used to know a few people who immigrated from different countries that would constantly preach about the way things were done where they came from and how Canada sucks and how Canada should do the things that they do, the way they do them. I think all of these people should LEAVE and go back to where they came from if it's so much better.

I couldn't agree with you more. We have a couple of those chronic whiners and complainers in my office and it annoys me to no end!

[simplysic]

Getting rid of christmas break and adding "winter break" is pleasing a group of non-christmas celebrators but is offending a lot of the people who celebrate christmas, so why do they get priority? I would rather see their holiday added than mine taken away.



So your saying...

"I celebrate Christmas, and Christmas Break has been Christmas break since you came here and before. I don't care if you co-exist with me in the same society, pay the same amount of tax and have the same rights. I am an original Canadian and therefore you have to deal with Christmas break instead of Winter Break."

As the gap between celebrator and non-celebrators decreses it is only fair that we start off a clean slate and not call BREAKS based on religion. Religion does not run government. Although I agree that I would like to see my holiday retained and others added, I would be happier to just have a holiday and for those who dont celebrate the holiday to ...it is just a break while some my fellow brothers celebrate this time of the year in their calender...

Winter Break is just a title. To a Christian it means the same as Christmas.


I used to know a few people who immigrated from different countries that would constantly preach about the way things were done where they came from and how Canada sucks and how Canada should do the things that they do, the way they do them. I think all of these people should LEAVE and go back to where they came from if it's so much better.

These people have NO RIGHT whatsoever to be part of Canada. It might be one to stand up for what you believe, its entirely another to call the shots while your not in your own playground.

Immigration is the choice one makes to abide to the codes and constricts of another land. People who ruin the harmony of any society should be strictly dealt with. They're simple hate mongers.

[Yogi]

Didn't Queens Park change the name of their Christmas Tree to "Holiday Tree"? :p

[Taz]

Some good posts here, I believe that immigration is a very positive thing if said immigrants are screened properly. Like others I have no problem with immigrants bringing their culture and religion here with them. As long as no one tries to change our culture. I want my children exposed to other peoples customs and religions. It will expand thier minds, possibly experiance great things. What I have the problem with is others trying (and succeeding)to change our culture.
The changing of our National Anthem, banishing the Lord's Prayer from school is just plain wrong.

[Nuke]

In response to symplisic's post: I don't think its right to demand that a holiday be renamed to suit other people who don't celebrate it. If there was a holiday for a different religion I wouldn't be offended. I don't celebrate the holiday so I won't pay much attention to it, but I don't think I have the right to say: "I don't celebrate that holiday therefor you should remove it or strip it of its meaning so that I don't have to deal with it". By stripping the names of holiday's you're stripping a way a lot of history.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

[Rustynut]

Well written Bogie, I must agree with your post.
There are some that would like to change the way we do things in Canada and lately there has been this push to adopt a Muslim law that degrades women. Things like that do not belong here at all. Too many new laws are being put on the books just to satisfy the whining few, who in order to get what they want put pressure on their elected officals or where they can install an elected offical from their own persuasion. End result is they get what they want for their own ethnicity.

As for headgear that doesn't correspond to the uniform that was designed for military or police long before some became members, religious reasons or not, this is not what was put in place and they have no right to change that for their own reasons. Wear what ever you want in your community and religious circles, but when out in the field doing duty for Canada then YOU adopt the uniform prescribed.
If you don't wish to wear Hard hats in an area that requires them then you take full responsibility for your actions. It is time to put the blame back where it belongs, or let the laws of evoulution remove your genes from the genepool.

Remember, we all came to this land and those that left a country for what ever reason came here because they think it better here, so leave your old laws at home evidently they didn't work well enough there to keep you living there so why screw up a fresh country? We can do that all by ourselves.

[simplysic]

In response to symplisic's post: I don't think its right to demand that a holiday be renamed to suit other people who don't celebrate it. If there was a holiday for a different religion I wouldn't be offended. I don't celebrate the holiday so I won't pay much attention to it, but I don't think I have the right to say: "I don't celebrate that holiday therefor you should remove it or strip it of its meaning so that I don't have to deal with it". By stripping the names of holiday's you're stripping a way a lot of history.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

I know what your trying to say exactly. I guess I have a different approach to this situation.

I'm lookin at it in the sense of political correctiveness (i agree that renaming the Chistmas Tree to Holiday tree is a going a bit over the edge).



If Canada boasts...Oh! Look at us, we have every nationality/religion in our land and they all celebrate their occasions. We are "THE WORLDS MOST DIVERSE COUNTRY"....then its the opposite of diversity that .....Oh! Canada was a Christian country before getting so diverse,so Christmas Break stays.

There's a responsibility that comes along with Canada's diversity slogan and IMHO they do a relatively good job at keeping it real.


btw ...its "simplysic" :P

[felixtrio]

I used to know a few people who immigrated from different countries that would constantly preach about the way things were done where they came from and how Canada sucks and how Canada should do the things that they do, the way they do them. I think all of these people should LEAVE and go back to where they came from if it's so much better.

In regards to Yogi's post: I agree with you. If immigrants come here and start committing crimes they should be exported immediately.

In response to this point, isn't that what we do when we go to other countries? We all think what we have is of value and it is superior.

Each culture is the result of survival and their way of dealing with life's challenges.

In 1967 I went to visit Expo 67 in Montreal. One of my friends was soley a meat and potatoes guy. My other friend and I were somewhat adventurous. There was such a great variety of foods from different lands to be sampled. Even some food items we had never seen in conservative Ontario. It was great to have this sampling. We learned that there were other solutions to life just as valid as ours. It opened our eyes.

As for friend #1, he made no effort at all to explore. Such is life. Some of us are static and others are dynamic.

Felix

[soldier]

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty (CP / Jonathan Hayward)

No Shariah family tribunals in Ontario: McGuinty
Canadian Press

TORONTO — Ontario will not become the first Western jurisdiction to allow the use of a set of centuries' old religious rules called Shariah law to settle Muslim family disputes, and will ban all religious arbitrations in the province, Premier Dalton McGuinty told The Canadian Press on Sunday.

In a telephone interview with the national news agency, McGuinty announced his government would move quickly to outlaw existing religious tribunals used for years by Christians and Jews under Ontario's Arbitration Act.

"I've come to the conclusion that the debate has gone on long enough,'' he said.

"There will be no Shariah law in Ontario. There will be no religious arbitration in Ontario. There will be one law for all Ontarians.''

McGuinty said religious arbitrations "threaten our common ground,'' and promised his Liberal government would introduce legislation "as soon as possible'' to outlaw them in Ontario.

"Ontarians will always have the right to seek advice from anyone in matters of family law, including religious advice,'' he said. "But no longer will religious arbitration be deciding matters of family law.''

[Mouse]

Better late then never.

Christians and Jews will, however, scream at their loss of power.

[Tim]

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty (CP / Jonathan Hayward)

No Shariah family tribunals in Ontario: McGuinty
Canadian Press

TORONTO — Ontario will not become the first Western jurisdiction to allow the use of a set of centuries' old religious rules called Shariah law to settle Muslim family disputes, and will ban all religious arbitrations in the province, Premier Dalton McGuinty told The Canadian Press on Sunday.

In a telephone interview with the national news agency, McGuinty announced his government would move quickly to outlaw existing religious tribunals used for years by Christians and Jews under Ontario's Arbitration Act.

"I've come to the conclusion that the debate has gone on long enough,'' he said.

"There will be no Shariah law in Ontario. There will be no religious arbitration in Ontario. There will be one law for all Ontarians.''

McGuinty said religious arbitrations "threaten our common ground,'' and promised his Liberal government would introduce legislation "as soon as possible'' to outlaw them in Ontario.

"Ontarians will always have the right to seek advice from anyone in matters of family law, including religious advice,'' he said. "But no longer will religious arbitration be deciding matters of family law.''

My. What is Walter going to say about that? Will he say "right on McGuinty!"

Somehow I doubt it.


Back to the thread, I didn't have time to read all the posts. But I do think that this is Canada, and people who come here should definitely make the effort to become a "Canadian" if they want to make this their permanent home. However, I think too much is being made about offending people with christmas holidays, whatever. But I have no problem 'rebranding' xmas break as 'winter break'. What the hell do I care? That doesn't change what I celebrate. Whether it's called xmas break, winter break, or drinkin week, I'll cook turkey and buy xmas gifts just like the majority of Canadians do.
I find this whining on both sides a little tiring.

If I say Merry Christmas and you're offended, well too bad.

I've never been offended when someone expressed their wishes for a celebration from their culture to me. I'm happy to see others enjoying themselves. Especially when they top my glass up with someone good to drink.
my 2 cents.

[Just Doug1]

Better late then never.

Christians and Jews will, however, scream at their loss of power.

We had some power? Damned if I knew about it.

It didn't help much when the gay/lesbian marriage issue was raised, did it?

[Quintin]

We had some power? Damned if I knew about it.

It didn't help much when the gay/lesbian marriage issue was raised, did it?
No because it wasn't a subject about arbitration.
It's funny because technically after they get married they can't divorce.

[Mr. Apollo]

So your saying...

"I celebrate Christmas, and Christmas Break has been Christmas break since you came here and before. I don't care if you co-exist with me in the same society, pay the same amount of tax and have the same rights. I am an original Canadian and therefore you have to deal with Christmas break instead of Winter Break."

As the gap between celebrator and non-celebrators decreses it is only fair that we start off a clean slate and not call BREAKS based on religion. Religion does not run government. Although I agree that I would like to see my holiday retained and others added, I would be happier to just have a holiday and for those who dont celebrate the holiday to ...it is just a break while some my fellow brothers celebrate this time of the year in their calender...

Winter Break is just a title. To a Christian it means the same as Christmas.



These people have NO RIGHT whatsoever to be part of Canada. It might be one to stand up for what you believe, its entirely another to call the shots while your not in your own playground.

Immigration is the choice one makes to abide to the codes and constricts of another land. People who ruin the harmony of any society should be strictly dealt with. They're simple hate mongers.

The original point of the of the break was to take off time during Christmas. I wouldn't be offened if I was in Saudi Arabia and they gave me time off for a Ramadan break. Besides I know a lot of Hindu people that celebrate Christmas and have a Christmas tree. They see it as a cultural event and something that Canadians do.

[Carz n Compz]

I must agree with the comments about langauges. Seeing someone who has been here in Canada for more than 3 years still not able to speak unstandable English is pretty ignorant. At least try to get involved with your new country instead of just hanging on for the easy life. I've heard in Israel, immigrants are sent to schools to learn Hebrew before they can become official citzens.

[Tim]

I must agree with the comments about langauges. Seeing someone who has been here in Canada for more than 3 years still not able to speak unstandable English is pretty ignorant. At least try to get involved with your new country instead of just hanging on for the easy life. I've heard in Israel, immigrants are sent to schools to learn Hebrew before they can become official citzens.

you use the windows version of spellchecker?

[Mouse]

Hee, hee, hee.

[Carz n Compz]

ENOUGH WITH YOUR NITPICKING. Just because I couldn't understand someone's post doesn't mean you can harass me and make comments about every little mistake I make. It's enough already!

[Mouse]

Do I hear "Uncle"? :)

[Dr.Dan]

ENOUGH WITH YOUR NITPICKING. Just because I couldn't understand someone's post doesn't mean you can harass me and make comments about every little mistake I make. It's enough already!
Sorry CnC, but maybe if you stop 'NITPICKING' on others maybe no one would be doing it back to you.
Seems you don't like it... so don't do it to others.

Thank you. :)

[Limey32]

My. What is Walter going to say about that? Will he say "right on McGuinty!"

Somehow I doubt it.


Back to the thread, I didn't have time to read all the posts. But I do think that this is Canada, and people who come here should definitely make the effort to become a "Canadian" if they want to make this their permanent home. However, I think too much is being made about offending people with christmas holidays, whatever. But I have no problem 'rebranding' xmas break as 'winter break'. What the hell do I care? That doesn't change what I celebrate. Whether it's called xmas break, winter break, or drinkin week, I'll cook turkey and buy xmas gifts just like the majority of Canadians do.
I find this whining on both sides a little tiring.

If I say Merry Christmas and you're offended, well too bad.

I've never been offended when someone expressed their wishes for a celebration from their culture to me. I'm happy to see others enjoying themselves. Especially when they top my glass up with SOMEONE good to drink.
my 2 cents.



Just to turn the table, for CNC's sake. LMAO. I never knew you were a vampire Tim. :)

[Tim]

ah ha ha. Good one.
ya got me. :)

That's too funny to edit.

[Tim]

ENOUGH WITH YOUR NITPICKING. Just because I couldn't understand someone's post doesn't mean you can harass me and make comments about every little mistake I make. It's enough already!

sorry dude, but with that annoying please use spellcheck PEOPLE' you kinda put a target on your back.
;)

[Shaman]

Ill throw in my 2 cents, I have read all the post and re-stating, all have valid points.

Number one, I am not christian, however my family for 21 yrs have called Christmas, Merry Christmas or X-Mas, and personally I think for mass-media avenues, i.e magazines and television that terms like Seasons greetings and Winter Break appeal to everyone and little things like that don't bother me because when I turn off the tv and celebrate with family & friends, 'hey man Merry Christmas' and it always will be.

However with that said, in city events i.e @ Nathan Phillip Square or any outdoor event, the friggn Christmas Tree should be always called that, because history is history and guess what, you don't come in a country and expect the traditions and lets say norms to switch to your 'new expectations'.

Now that being said I have some views on immegration and what they 'must' understand about this country, although I could be wrong in what I say.

1. First off, there are way too many immegrants creating a language barrier these days, I mean I feel like a minority infact I know I am, with the chinese, russians, arabs etc wow, english truely has become the 2nd language in Toronto. I wish english was a mandatory requirement with in the first yr to 2 years, at the least 1/2 assed english.

2. This country is not a place to bring your prejudice and agression over world issues to. We all heard, leave your emotions at home, don't bring em to work. well drop your issues at our border, your lucky to come to such a place like Canada. Yeah where you actually can sleep and eat everyday without the worry of a suicide bomber blowing up a resturant. This probably sounds 'cold' but I try to see all angles of a situation, I can understand a group expressing themselves on a recognized platform about say the war in certain places and what not, but to take these feelings and create gangs and intercity turf wars between different cultures, DONT BRING YOUR WAR HERE, if you wanted to keep fighting then LEAVE and fight elseware.

3. Oh this is a must in this country, it's called 'education' on the 'DO'S' and 'DON'TS of this country.
A. don't litter, my parents inform me that in the 70's and 80's that in this culture they figured out this before the immegrants turned a clean place like toronto into a dirty unflushed toliet bowl of the outside nations and quite honestly I believe it, I was raised with proper city and public sanity manners, flush and throw out trash in their places

[Swordfish]

you use the windows version of spellchecker?


ahhahahahahaha

[Swordfish]

ENOUGH WITH YOUR NITPICKING. Just because I couldn't understand someone's post doesn't mean you can harass me and make comments about every little mistake I make. It's enough already!



awwww pooor baby but its OK for you to do that to Us eh????? perhaps you'd like alittle more WHINE with your cheese

[x86/Z80asm]

Molding with Canadian society is probably the most difficult hurdle to overcome when becoming a Canadian citizen.


Also I think a time limit on how long a person has to learn reasonable English is a bit too harsh being that some people can learn languages very easily and some cant. For example, my parents came here to Canada from Ghana in I believe in '80 '81, well Ghana was colonialized by the English so pretty much every Ghanian educated in the school system there has a very good understanding of English (in fact it is one of the official languages). People who do not have a system like this in place in their home country will need a bit more time to adapt, English is fairly complex from what I heard from previous English teachers. Many of you guys (Im assuming, DONT FLAME ME!!) are primary English speakers so technically you have never had to learn another language. Well I can say I somewhat fall in the same boat, I did learn English first and then now I know a bit of my parents mother tounge (lol, I eavesdrop into their conversation, I seriously dont think they know I can understand what they are saying hahaha, my little secret :D).

I do believe in the conformity though, that immigrants should learn to do things the "Canadian" way. But I seriously dont think the "melting pot" approach as taken in the US will work to the advantage of Canadians. I mean you get all kinds of cool festivals and stuff with different themes, it makes for very interesting times.

Also lets not forget "culture shock", I mean unless you are coming from some country in Europe your gonna experience some of this.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Sorry EX, for some reason my comment did not get added. Thank you once again for correcting me. BTW I know this was not a Robin Williams exclusive....What I forgot to post in was...I wonder what type of response HAD there been one of these written from a Canadian perspective. Cuz I do not recall their being much flak from this.




The Plan!


Hard to argue with this logic!
Robin Williams' plan
http://www.idiots-guide.org/gfx/robinwilliams.bmp
"I see a lot of people yelling for peace
but I have not heard of a plan for
peace. So, here's one plan."


1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good ole boys', we will never "interfere" again.


2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.


3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!!
No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here.
Asylum would never be available to anyone.
We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes,
or they get a "D", it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will just have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go buy it elsewhere. They can go somewhere else to sell their production.
(About a week of their wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need.
Besides most of what we give them are stolen or given to the army.The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...
Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "


If you agree with the above forward forward this link to friends...


If not, and I would be amazed

[Exmortis]

Robin Williams never wrote that and I don't know how it relates to this topic of being Canadian...

[jovin]

That, as most of Robin Williams material these days, is not funny; it's pathetically laughable, as he's become.

I particularly like the language solution, which I find quite ironic after I read an article in today's paper. Apparently many American firms have obtained government contracts for the reconstruction of New Orleans. Of course being quite creative, those same American firms have hired thousands of Mexican construction workers because they don't need to pay them minimum wages or fringe benefits. One of the complaints of the natives: those foreigners don't speak English. Which goes to prove that Americans understand only one language and it's not English: it's the sound of money.

[Mischief007]

Me being an immigrant (not once but twice) was thrown into school after arriving in Canada in late August of 92. If you are being forced to learn the language you will pick it up fast, trust me on that. Both my brother and I were speaking fluently within 6 months. My mom speaks English well but her writing is mediocre since she never received proper schooling for that. My dad, on the other hand, has poor English. Since the day we got here he's been working 60-70 hour work week for a Czech construction worker. This way my dad still could communicate with him in Polish since both languages are pretty close to each other. My dad does speak English and he can get along with most Canadians pretty well. It's actually the Canadians who have helped him most with that.

We came from Europe, so the initial culture shock wasn't really there. All I can comment is on the language barrier since I've experienced it twice. Once when we moved to Germany and then again when we moved to Canada. English is my third language.

[Frogy]

I do believe in the conformity though, that immigrants should learn to do things the "Canadian" way.


Therin lay the problem, in my opinion. Some believe that doing things the Canadian way means to abandon their heritage, not so. Our forefathers "Canadianized" and created what we call Canadians today just as those immigrating here now will also influence what we know as a Canadian in tomorrows world. After all, we all are a product of the cultural immigration that forms our history and society, should we offer no less to our present and future immigrants?


We live in a changing world and we need to adapt just as they do. It's a give and take thing.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Therin lay the problem, in my opinion. Some believe that doing things the Canadian way means to abandon their heritage, not so. Our forefathers "Canadianized" and created what we call Canadians today just as those immigrating here now will also influence what we know as a Canadian in tomorrows world. After all, we all are a product of the cultural immigration that forms our history and society, should we offer no less to our present and future immigrants?


We live in a changing world and we need to adapt just as they do. It's a give and take thing.

You can be more canadian In Canada, without losing your heritage.

However if I moved to Iraq or Iran, do you think I could complain or change their ways and become more canadian? Me thinks not. Should be equal or none.....not the way it is now.

[Frogy]

You can be more canadian In Canada, without losing your heritage.

However if I moved to Iraq or Iran, do you think I could complain or change their ways and become more canadian? Me thinks not. Should be equal or none.....not the way it is now.

I would think so and the analogy to Iraq and Iran doesn't fit since that isn't Canada.

[Just Doug1]

You can be more canadian In Canada, without losing your heritage.

However if I moved to Iraq or Iran, do you think I could complain or change their ways and become more canadian? Me thinks not. Should be equal or none.....not the way it is now.

Most could stop with any hyphenated Canadian crap.

You're not a great Canadian if you're content to be a something-Canadian.

[Frogy]

Most could stop with any hyphenated Canadian crap.

You're not a great Canadian if you're content to be a something-Canadian.


We're all "something-Canadian" at root and being a true "Canadian" exemplifies that.

[I LIKE EGGS]

I would think so and the analogy to Iraq and Iran doesn't fit since that isn't Canada.

It does for the fact that why (when it's the other way around) Canada has to be so yielding towards everyone's needs....and yet if it were the other way around, I am positive....100% positive that you would not be treated as fairly are you are here.

[I LIKE EGGS]

We're all "something-Canadian" at root and being a true "Canadian" exemplifies that.

EGGSactly.....I am a Canadian with a German backround. We still adhere to Canadian ways and customs, however we still practice our own heritage within our own backyard. (IE: christmas) without disrupting the balance that is Canada. Who am I to demand change just because my race, religion or backround requires it. My family checked that crap at the door when they immigrated here. We never forget who we were, however we love being who we are.

[Frogy]

It does for the fact that why (when it's the other way around) Canada has to be so yielding towards everyone's needs....and yet if it were the other way around, I am positive....100% positive that you would not be treated as fairly are you are here.



That is the issue though, isn't it. That's what makes us who we are, Canadians and unique to ourselves.

[jovin]

If some people come to Canada and do not wish to learn or speak English and can manage to live with that handicap, what does it matter to the rest of Canadians? I believe they have the right to speak whatever language they please and that doesn't make them "worse" Canadians in my eyes. If that makes them different from "mainstream" Canadians, so what? We all don't have to be a slice of the same loaf of white bread. And the same goes for keeping customs and traditions alive as far as I'm concerned, except for those that wish to import hatred and violence.

[Rustynut]

Reviewing some of the posts, I seem to get the gist that some feel difficulty in retaining their own ( first ) language.
My view of Canada is not like that, we are all products of immigration and to retain the mother tounge only serves to improve us all with the diversity.
I always maintain that people should study and learn more than one language and customs.
That being said, I still feel with all the diversity in customs these shouln't supercede the customs and laws entrenched in Canada.
To come here and expect to make the newly adopted country accept and change the laws to conform to what you are comfortable with is ludicrous. I refer to the court challenge that was recently turned down where muslim laws deemed in Canada to be detrimental to women, they had a name for it but presently I cannot remember the name they refered to it. In a nutshell it would have taken rights away from women who did not measure up to their husbands' desires or beliefs, and could be punished under muslim law.
That is the sort of thing I disagree with, do not introduce customs and laws that we all have to deal with. We have enough on the books now.
At home by all means observe your customs, speak your language and live as your fore fathers did with the exception of those lifestyles that conflict with Canadian law as it is.
No one in this country should be embarassed or ashamed of their heritage, rather proudly display it.

[Just Doug1]

We're all "something-Canadian" at root and being a true "Canadian" exemplifies that.

The point I'm making is that advertising you are "something-Canadian" is the root of the problem.

Some came from France. Some came from Britian.

Germany.

Italy.

Japan.

Some came from Sri Lanka.

We are Canadian.

[jovin]

The point I'm making is that advertising you are "something-Canadian" is the root of the problem.

Some came from France. Some came from Britian.

Germany.

Italy.

Japan.

Some came from Sri Lanka.

We are Canadian.

For first generation immigrants, it's impossible to forget the mother country as it would be for you a true-blood Canadian I presume to forget Canada and not still consider yourself a Canadian at heart if you were to immigrate to Brazil. Does it really matter if some new Canadians want to identify themselves as a hyphenated group? Soon enough they will all be assimilated into the same loaf of sliced white bread I referred to in my previous post, and our society will be much poorer for that. Enjoy the diversity while you can Just Doug.

[Just Doug1]

I'm using the "wisdom" garnered by studying my own assorted ancestors, who were as likely to call themselves not as Irish-Canadian (or whatever) but simply Irish.

To publicly announce that you are solely Canadian, you not only accept the ethnic divercity that is this country, you revel in it.

If a group of people are so unfocused as to forget ones culture in a generation or two, they are likely better off not as a "something-Canadian" but rather as simply a "something".

[Tim]

It's sometimes interesting to know where people come from. I don't have a problem with hyphenated titles, complete-spaz will work just fine too.
I have a problem with those who feel Canadian law etc. should change to reflect their culture. Only if it is for the good of Canada as a whole, should any change happen.

Me, I'm Irish-German-Blackfoot. Does that make me less of a spaz?

[Yogi]

I refer to the court challenge that was recently turned down where muslim laws deemed in Canada to be detrimental to women, they had a name for it but presently I cannot remember the name they refered to it. In a nutshell it would have taken rights away from women who did not measure up to their husbands' desires or beliefs, and could be punished under muslim law.
Sharia Law.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Sharia/

[Just Doug1]

....

Me, I'm Irish-German-Blackfoot. Does that make me less of a spaz?

No, and no less of a Canadian either. :hys:

[I LIKE EGGS]

If some people come to Canada and do not wish to learn or speak English and can manage to live with that handicap, what does it matter to the rest of Canadians? I believe they have the right to speak whatever language they please and that doesn't make them "worse" Canadians in my eyes. If that makes them different from "mainstream" Canadians, so what? We all don't have to be a slice of the same loaf of white bread. And the same goes for keeping customs and traditions alive as far as I'm concerned, except for those that wish to import hatred and violence.
But the problem here Jovin is that these non English speaking people want the same lifestyle as the rest. SO they end up being placed in jobs where dealing with customers is a huge part of your day (Cab driver, 7-11, and gas pump attendant). When you have that language barrier, it makes it very difficult to communicate. I am not saying that they need to be fluent in English, but by god man, at least learn what is needed to survive.

We have a gentleman that works with us he is from India. He has lived here now since January 1st 2005. Now his accent is still very very strong, his English is fantastic. He told me English is a 2nd language for him in India. Now we had a road trip to do and he expressed interest in coming. Also he said his wife was available to help. But he explained to us that she does not know English....but he could act as an interpreter. So I agreed and by the end of the 6 weeks, she was able to communicate with me rather well. Not a full blown conversation. But she did what it took to continue to have her job. It's very commendable. These are the type of people that I like seeing here in Canada....those that will do whatever it takes to be a part of the bigger picture.


On the other side of the coin....we had another lady that worked for us a few years ago. It was during the xmas holidays. Now I cannot remember what it is called or what religion it comes from....but she has to fast around our Canadian Xmas holidays. She put up such a fuss when it came to getting that time off...she demanded that she be able to work. She got the labour board involved et al...anyone she could to try to "make" our company open for that day. Worse part was....it was a paid vacation....so I do not know what her issue was. We certainly were not going to have a supervisor come in for one day especially on Xmas, just so she had a place to go. However, she too was very english deprived. So with the language barrier, I was unable to properly communicate with her to try and help her understand about our paid holiday. We did our best as an equal opportunity employer to give her employment. The least she could do was repair her extremly broken english in order to survive @ her job better and not demand change in our ways.

[Just Doug1]

It should be mandatory for everyone emigrating to this country that they be reasonably fluent in either of our countries two official languages in a fixed time frame.

[jovin]

It should be mandatory for everyone emigrating to this country that they be reasonably fluent in either of our countries two official languages in a fixed time frame.

Hopefully you're saying this in jest.

[Just Doug1]

Hopefully you're saying this in jest.


No.

Saying that I expected people coming to this country be reasonably fluent in one of our two official languages before they are permitted to submit an application or be allowed refugee status would be in jest.

Mostly because I know it would be an excellent reaction-getter.

[Tim]

No.

Saying that I expected people coming to this country be reasonably fluent in one of our two official languages before they are permitted to submit an application or be allowed refugee status would be in jest.

Mostly because I know it would be an excellent reaction-getter.
that could create a nice way to grab some tax dough and run some 'English classes' for some.
;)

snort!!!

[Just Doug1]

For first generation immigrants, it's impossible to forget the mother country as it would be for you a true-blood Canadian I presume to forget Canada and not still consider yourself a Canadian at heart if you were to immigrate to Brazil. Does it really matter if some new Canadians want to identify themselves as a hyphenated group? Soon enough they will all be assimilated into the same loaf of sliced white bread I referred to in my previous post, and our society will be much poorer for that. Enjoy the diversity while you can Just Doug.

Cry me a river mate. You belittle the cultures you claim to protect.

[jovin]

Cry me a river mate. You belittle the cultures you claim to protect.

How so since I don't claim to protect any culture? I do enjoy the diversity of all our cultures, however, and you would too if you had ever ventured out of Canada and seen that there is a big world out there.

[Tim]

a big bad world out there...

[Just Doug1]

How so since I don't claim to protect any culture? I do enjoy the diversity of all our cultures, however, and you would too if you had ever ventured out of Canada and seen that there is a big world out there.

LOL, I knew multiculturalism from before it was ever a buzz word.

I should scan up my 73' graduation high school photo. School (http://www.albertc.on.ca/)

You learn culture by really living with people. Sunquest Holidays doesn't deliver that.

[jovin]

LOL, I knew multiculturalism from before it was ever a buzz word.

I should scan up my 73' graduation high school photo. School (http://www.albertc.on.ca/)

You learn culture by really living with people. Sunquest Holidays doesn't deliver that.

Really? And where did you live abroad that you have appreciated the local culture? We'll compare notes.

[reiver]

I hate to say it, but if your "homeland" was so great that you don't want to adopt the culture of the country that welcomed you in, why did you come here in the first place? And more to the point, why would you want want to change this country to a replica of where you left?

[I LIKE EGGS]

I hate to say it, but if your "homeland" was so great that you don't want to adopt the culture of the country that welcomed you in, why did you come here in the first place? And more to the point, why would you want want to change this country to a replica of where you left?

In the words of Cousin Eddie Johnson-from National Lampoons Christmas Vacation, "BINGO!"

[I LIKE EGGS]

nice article...a bit strong but a good read imo.

I am an immigrant, from India and I'm Catholic (Catholic Indians make up about only 2% of India's 1.2 billion).

I grew up in school having a Christmas break in a predominantly Hindu society but I think Canada is on the right track on political correctiness when they witness it as WINTER BREAK. Why?...

IMO, Canada proclaims itself as being the worlds most diverse country which is an amazing feat. We'r home to not just ONE religion/culture. Christmas might b a celebration of the majority of Canadians but for the minority- they should not be left out. Do we have a Ramadan break? or any other holiday based on a religion? I think its part n parcel Canada serves the Xmas holiday as a winter break because it has taken the title of diversity upon itself. Canada should be an example of this diversity when it comes to how it deals with the people as well.

We're ruining Canada's culture?
The government regulates immigration thru investments. Somewhere down the road someone saw it as a good thing to let people into the country to work and have a better life. Why is any family supposed to change its cultural values and views for the sake of moving to Canada? Its fair that people should kno the language and be aware of the tradition and culture that exists here but its unfair that they change their way of life just to FIT IN. Canada's culture is not lost and it never will be. But as hours tick away and history is written, people are changing their perception of Canada. It is the dream of mankind to see people of all colours live together in harmony. Canada is and should be a country that is welcoming and a great place to live in. Her rich history will never be forgotten, and neither will it be erased. It's just that we're moving to be a better nation, one which has more tolerance than others.


How is that a bad thing?

Just thought of something...and I know its late in the post....however....

Why is it that when immigrants want something they expect Canada to adapt and make sacrifices.....

....what sacrifices do immigrants make to come and stay here?

It would seem when it suits immigrants, they demand change, but are not willing to accept change when it is turned onto them and not under their influence or terms.

If I moved anywhere else in the world I would not be allowed to change their religion, their beliefs, their culture and certainly not their holidays.

Again, as stated in the article in the beginning, you wanna express your rights as a canadian, you also have the right to leave if you do not like it here.

My co-worker is Jamacian....and he is appauled anytime an immigrant *****es and complains about Canada and the changes thru diversity. He thinks it makes other immigrants look bad....and it pisses him off to no end.

He loves Canada and everything it stands for. He loves the culture. He has also notices that within the past 20 years, our culture has deminished so much....that we do not really have a specific culture anymore.....he gets quite emotional about it. Can this be the only sane immigrant in this country? How is it a Jamacian man, West indian if you will, whom immigrated here 20 years ago, can be so emotional that Canada has really lost its culture?

MY CANADA INCLUDES ANNE MURRAY!!!!!! :hys:

[jovin]

Gosh, maybe we can adapt something that the Catholic Church used to practice when converting Africans (and early North American Indians), "We'll make 'em conform even if we have to kill 'em".

[I LIKE EGGS]

Gosh, maybe we can adapt something that the Catholic Church used to practice when converting Africans (and early North American Indians), "We'll make 'em conform even if we have to kill 'em".

Ahhh but Catholicism is practiced everywhere in the world, so was that a specific practice or just a Canadian practice, remember we are all trying to be politically correct here :P

[Yogi]

It should be mandatory for everyone emigrating to this country that they be reasonably fluent in either of our countries two official languages in a fixed time frame.
I agree, particularly for those in jobs dealing with the public. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to converse with someone in government, store clerk, tech support, pizza delivery, taxicab driver etc. that can barely speak English.

It doesn't have to be perfect English, but at least enough so that there is a semblance of a 2-way comminucation.

[Mista-X]

Got this in a email today

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be Canada if we
continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other
countries that came to live in Canada because it is the Country of
Choice?????? Think about it!
All we have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?

I celebrate Christmas...........but because it isn't celebrated by
everyone..............we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has
to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter
Break.
Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas
holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not
offend
anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a
problem with that. This says it all !

This is an editorial written by an
Toronto newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

Wow. I'm not going to reply to the other posts in this thread, because this thread has been going on a while and I don't have the time to dive in to the "deep end", so to speak.

I will pose the question, how exactly is this persyn of whom you received this email from being oppressed? It sounds like just the opposite in my opinion; this persyn feels threatened because their culture is being challenged as the dominant one.


IMMIGRANTS,
NOT Canadians
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist
attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the
majority of Canadians.

Most essays will begin with an introduction, and generally the first paragraph hints at the point the author wishes to make; or at least the direction of the piece. But this just blatantly gives the whole thing away. We can tell that this is going nowhere but a Western Chauvinistic and Xenophobic direction, with a hint of Jingoism for extra flavour.


However...... the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining
about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

What does this prove? Nothing other than the fact that the author takes offense from others taking offense to their point of view; i.e. "My country, right or wrong" and "either you or with us or you or with the terrorists".


I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone
who is seeking a better life by coming to Canada

If this is the case then maybe the author better get a grip on the reality of imperialism and the role in which Kanada plays in oppressing the rest of the world.


Our population is
almost entirely made up of descedants of immigrants.

Wow, I guess that must be news to the mostly old white protestant men who run this country and the whites who seem to think it's theirs despite affirmation from the First Nations that the land was stolen.


However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of Canada being a
multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and
our national identity. As Canadians....... we have our own culture, our
own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has
been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by
millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

Big deal, every province, city, and even from town to town for that matter; differs somewhat in "culture", "society", "language", and "lifestyle". Centuries of struggle have certainly brought progress to Kanada, if are talking about the working class, wimmin's, Queer's, etc. struggles; but I'm not sure what this author is referring to. At the same time the Kanadian state has maintained hegemony over the people and kept it's financial interests firmly in place as an oppressor of the 3rd world. If you wonder why immigrants come here, you can some it up in the slogan "We are here, because you were there". Colonialism still hasn't ended after over 500 years.


We speak ENGLISH/FRENCH , not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese,
Japanese, Russian, or any other language.

What authority is this author on Linguistics I relation to contemporary societies and in what way should anyone feel threatened by a foreign language? I'm surprised that the author mentioned Japanese; after all Kanada virtually eliminated the Japanese community during WW II when they sent the people to internment camps, took their property, and banned them from living in port cities for years after. Not like that was a new policy, nor is it an old phenomenon; Kanada interned Ukrainians to labour camps in WW I, used Chinese labour to build our rail roads (issued head taxes on Chinese families, no citizenship, then sent them home), and allowed East Indian coolies. Without getting in to the whole list of communities the Kanadian state targeted throughout the past century or so, we'll skip to the present persecution of the Muslim and Arabic community, who we can only safely assume was the real target of this article, considering the author’s first paragraph.


Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society, learn the language!

Being recognized and respected as a part of society is the right of every human being by virtue of being human. This author’s persynal and non-sense views are irrelevant. The author’s views are very simplistic, emotional, and irrational. The author still hasn't shown how he or she is oppressed or hurt by any of these complaints.


"We Stand On Guard For Thee" is our national motto.

This might be the author's "national motto", but it means about as much to me as a lump of dog **** defrosted in the spring time, and I am willing to bet many Quebecois and First Nations comrades feel the same way.


This is not some
Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women.......on Christian principles.............
founded this nation.....

The first part of this "sentence" contradicts the other, and I don't think I need to say anything more.


and this is clearly documented.

"clearly documented" doesn't mean correct, true or just. It just means a certain class view point was written and is taught as historical fact; and has created a hegemonious point of view in our culture.


It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.

Say’s who? What is displayed in school already is bad enough.


If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the
world as your new home.........because God is part of our culture.

That’s interesting, since I am a 4th generation settler, and am an atheist.


We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we
really don't care how you did things where you came from.

Who is "we", a small group of angry white boys wearing pointy white hats and waving the red ensign?


This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.

Let's not forget who the original inhabitants of this land are.


But once you are done complaining....... whining...... and
griping.......

This author sure is one to talk about that...


about our flag....... our pledge...... our national
motto........or our way of life....I highly encourage you to
take advantage of one other Great Canadian Freedom.......

THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

Perhaps maybe Kanada, the united $nakes and brit$hit should take the same advice and get the **** out of Haiti, Afghanistan and Iraq; for starters.

**** I can't believe I wasted time on this.

[Just Doug1]

Really? And where did you live abroad that you have appreciated the local culture? We'll compare notes.

You assumed of me some insulated "sliced white bread" lifestyle (When is that going to be considered as much a racial epithet as nigger or spic?) so maybe you should get a bigger soapbox. Things are still going way over your head.

List your curriculum vitae if you must. Those that know me know it's seldom a requirement from my end of the spectrum.

[Just Doug1]

Gosh, maybe we can adapt something that the Catholic Church used to practice when converting Africans (and early North American Indians), "We'll make 'em conform even if we have to kill 'em".

Why adopt hateful and racist practices nowadays when the current government can pander to yet another of the seven deadly sins and allow federal tax dollars and greed to do the job of debasing these people and turning their cultural offerings and festivals into political tools?

[Tim]

...However...... the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining
about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others...


hmmmm. I've never heard anyone say (except the neo-cons of course) that our 'patriotism' is offending others.

[Just Doug1]

hmmmm. I've never heard anyone say (except the neo-cons of course) that our 'patriotism' is offending others.

It obvious annoyed the creators of South Park.

To say nothing of the retorts I've recieved as to a simple requirement of all those commited to Canada as their adoptive home that they be reasonably fluent in one of our two official languages within a certain timeframe.

[Tim]

there's nothing unreasonable with that. Isn't it still a requirement that newly accepted Canadian citizens pass some sort of language requirement?

[Just Doug1]

According to Immigration Canada it is, but I don't see it in practice.

I do volunteer work at a local community centre and see folks daily who don't have the language skills needed for day-to-day living.

I also know they've been residents for enough years to become citizens as many times their children are doing the translating.

The other thing I noticed is that all government funding should be going to programs that support all peoples of Canada, such as the place I "work" at, instead of cultural-specific destinations.

I'm replacing a fair chunk of their IT infrastructure out of my own pocket or by donating my used parts/equipment. They're so strapped for cash that replacing a laser printer cartridge has sometimes had to wait.

[jovin]

You assumed of me some insulated "sliced white bread" lifestyle (When is that going to be considered as much a racial epithet as nigger or spic?) so maybe you should get a bigger soapbox. Things are still going way over your head.

List your curriculum vitae if you must. Those that know me know it's seldom a requirement from my end of the spectrum.

As someone else on this forum, your powers of deduction and of making rational conclusions are quite limited. When did I include you as part of the white sliced bread loaf? But then if you conclude that, maybe you do belong.

"Those damn immigrants once again threatening out established culture and way of life! The nerve of them to force us to change our ways. How will be able to survive?" That kind of sums it up doesn't it?

[Just Doug1]

As someone else on this forum, your powers of deduction and of making rational conclusions are quite limited. When did I include you as part of the white sliced bread loaf? But then if you conclude that, maybe you do belong.

"Those damn immigrants once again threatening out established culture and way of life! The nerve of them to force us to change our ways. How will be able to survive?" That kind of sums it up doesn't it?

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31464

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31684

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31724

Although frankly, IMO you lost any validity here:

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31739

when you flew off track with your rant about a sad time in Catholic Church history.

By ones own petard, mate. By ones own petard.

[jovin]

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31464

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31684

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31724

Although frankly, IMO you lost any validity here:

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31739

when you flew off track with your rant about a sad time in Catholic Church history.

By ones own petard, mate. By ones own petard.

That would be all the time Just Doug, even now. There was no particular time when the Catholic Church was "misbehaving": it always did.

[Mista-X]

By the way, this piece of crap was never from a Toronto newspaper. A google search reveals that it came out of Tampa, FL. Suprise, suprise.

[debbie]

Welcome back Mista-X! good to see you. :)

We were just wondering about your whereabouts last night. Were your ears burning or something? ;)

[jovin]

By the way, this piece of crap was never from a Toronto newspaper. A google search reveals that it came out of Tampa, FL. Suprise, suprise.

Which goes to show that no person, organization or country has a monopoly on prejudice.

And just for Just Doug: I am part of the loaf of white sliced bread that I referrred to in my previous posts and I do come from a country where racism is considered to be not only acceptable but de rigueur.

[paul6077]

[QUOTE=simplysic]nice article...a bit strong but a good read imo.

I am an immigrant, from India and I'm Catholic (Catholic Indians make up about only 2% of India's 1.2 billion).

I grew up in school having a Christmas break in a predominantly Hindu society but I think Canada is on the right track on political correctiness when they witness it as WINTER BREAK. Why?...

IMO, Canada proclaims itself as being the worlds most diverse country which is an amazing feat. We'r home to not just ONE religion/culture. Christmas might b a celebration of the majority of Canadians but for the minority- they should not be left out. Do we have a Ramadan break? or any other holiday based on a religion? I think its part n parcel Canada serves the Xmas holiday as a winter break because it has taken the title of diversity upon itself. Canada should be an example of this diversity when it comes to how it deals with the people as well.

We're ruining Canada's culture?
The government regulates immigration thru investments. Somewhere down the road someone saw it as a good thing to let people into the country to work and have a better life. Why is any family supposed to change its cultural values and views for the sake of moving to Canada? Its fair that people should kno the language and be aware of the tradition and culture that exists here but its unfair that they change their way of life just to FIT IN. Canada's culture is not lost and it never will be. But as hours tick away and history is written, people are changing their perception of Canada. It is the dream of mankind to see people of all colours live together in harmony. Canada is and should be a country that is welcoming and a great place to live in. Her rich history will never be forgotten, and neither will it be erased. It's just that we're moving to be a better nation, one which has more tolerance than others.


How is that a bad thing?[/QUOTE


Please, exercise the aforementioned right!

[Taz]

I don't believe people should change their culture when immigrating to Canada what I personally have a problem with is the ones that try and change Canada to their ways.

[Mista-X]

Welcome back Mista-X! good to see you. :)

We were just wondering about your whereabouts last night. Were your ears burning or something? ;)

No, I have just been busy with University studies, and during a break I decided to pop in here and see what's new. :)

[paul6077]

I don't believe people should change their culture when immigrating to Canada what I personally have a problem with is the ones that try and change Canada to their ways.

Exactly! If my family and friends want to celebrate CHRISTMAS, we will, and to H with anyone who takes offense! If they don't like it, LEAVE! PLEASE! Cuz
CHRISTMAS is less than 3 months away.

[jovin]

I don't believe people should change their culture when immigrating to Canada what I personally have a problem with is the ones that try and change Canada to their ways.

And who may they be and what do you believe they want to achieve in terms of changing Canada "to their ways"?

[paul6077]

And who may they be and what do you believe they want to achieve in terms of changing Canada "to their ways"?

"THEY" are the people who are upset about a "Merry Christmas" and would have me say "Happy Holidays"! That's who "THEY" are!

P.S. An early "Merry Christmas" to you and yours. I hope I didn't upset you.
(Don't care if I did.)

[Taz]

And who may they be and what do you believe they want to achieve in terms of changing Canada "to their ways"?

I am refering to people who want to change(and have succeeded in some) things like police uniforms, our holiday traditions, taking the lords prayer out of schools. In my profession I talk to people of all differant racial backgrounds and hear many complain about how it is here in Canada. If it was that bad why are they here ?

[jovin]

I am refering to people who want to change(and have succeeded in some) things like police uniforms, our holiday traditions, taking the lords prayer out of schools. In my profession I talk to people of all differant racial backgrounds and hear many complain about how it is here in Canada. If it was that bad why are they here ?

Huh, huh, that's where you and me part company. The Lord's prayer has no business being said in school, and the old adage of "why are they here" smacks of at the very least intolerance.

That's the end of my comments on this thread.

[Taz]

Huh, huh, that's where you and me part company. The Lord's prayer has no business being said in school, and the old adage of "why are they here" smacks of at the very least intolerance.

That's the end of my comments on this thread.

Intolerant to people trying to change Canada to the ways of the country they left, I'm 100% guilty. I've no problem with muslims,jewish or what have you practicing their religous or personal beliefs in thier homes or places of warship. Or keeping the customs of their homeland as long as its in thier home.