New Orleans Doctors: We had to kill our patients

[Digiital]

http://www.guerrillanews.com/headlines/4830/New_Orleans_Doctors_We_had_to_kill_our_patients

Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals

With gangs of rapists and looters rampaging through wards in the flooded city, senior doctors took the harrowing decision to give massive overdoses of morphine to those they believed could not make it out alive.

In an extraordinary interview with The Mail on Sunday, one New Orleans doctor told how she ‘prayed for God to have mercy on her soul’ after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.

Her heart-rending account has been corroborated by a hospital orderly and by local government officials. One emergency official, William ‘Forest’ McQueen, said: “Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die.”

READ MORE AT THE LINK ABOVE.

[Yogi]

I'm afraid this will open up a plethora of malpractice lawsuits.

Americans are known for being "sue-happy" at the drop of a hat.

[Law]

yeah well, who knows if they only killed patients with no chance of survival.

[reiver]

In an extraordinary interview with The Mail on Sunday, one New Orleans doctor told how she ‘prayed for God to have mercy on her soul’ after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.

Well at least she prayed to God, that makes everything better! Maybe the patients' families can sue that guy.

[Mouse]

yeah well, who knows if they only killed patients with no chance of survival.
Spoken like a lawyer.

I'm sure you are pleased with my statement.

We weren't there, we can't judge.

[Law]

Spoken like a lawyer.

I'm sure you are pleased with my statement.

We weren't there, we can't judge.

Well no, we werent there but who is to say they didnt kill a bunch of them to lighten their load so to speak.

And yes we can judge. Or criticize, we have every right. When someone takes the life of another we have the right to judge and it goes on all the time.

When an officer takes someone's life there is alot of judgement and criticizing even though "we werent there"

[Mouse]

Are everyone's motives always suspect??

Is no one above reproach?

[Law]

Are everyone's motives always suspect??

Is no one above reproach?

in situations where there are lost lives , then yes.

[Quintin]

Are everyone's motives always suspect??

Is no one above reproach?
The advantage of youth......

[squab]

Is murder justified in certain circumstances?.

[reiver]

Doctors don't have the moral authority to play god, sorry. They aren't forced to swear to the hippocratic oath anymore, but here are some key points:

To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them. This beneficial intention is the purpose of the physician. However, this item is still invoked in discussions of euthanasia.

To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority. There may be other conflicting "good purposes," such as community welfare, conserving economic resources, supporting the criminal justice system, or simply making money for the physician or his employer that provide recurring challenges to physicians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

[Just Doug1]

A doctors job is two-fold, IMO.

To prolong life whenever reasonably possible, and to reduce suffering.

I don't envy the position they were put in and not one of us has the right to judge their actions.

[Law]

well there will be some kind of reprocussions in this. The doctors took it upon themselves to kill these patients. This wouldnt be allowed any other time and im not sure it can be allowed this time.

Assisted suicides are not allowed and many times the patients even request it themselves but arent allowed this.

In this case the patients werent asked what they wanted.

Its not a simple matter thats for sure. But i know if i had a family member put to death in this situation id want alot of answers, i wouldnt just accept what was done.

[Mr. Apollo]

Unfortunately I think they did the only humane thing in this situation. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, ask any doctor. However, it's with the consent of the family. I know this is what happened with my grandfather. He was dying of bone cancer and none of the pain killers worked for him. He was in constant agony 24 hours a day. The doctors disconnected his feeding tubes and asked if we wanted them to "give him a little more morphine then usual to help with the pain".

The same generally happens with babies that are born with horrible birth defects like Harlequin babies.

[dakotaeagle]

In this case the patients werent asked what they wanted.




How do you know this for sure?

It was first mentioned by mousemeat and I qoute "We weren't there, we can't judge" and then yourself "Well no, we werent there"

This is something that would be a very tough decision for any of us to make and until we are in that position we can't really say what happened. I know the news media tends to sensationalize things and omit things as they see fit. I know personally I would not want to be put into that position.

[Law]

How do you know this for sure?

It was first mentioned by mousemeat and I qoute "We weren't there, we can't judge" and then yourself "Well no, we werent there"

This is something that would be a very tough decision for any of us to make and until we are in that position we can't really say what happened. I know the news media tends to sensationalize things and omit things as they see fit. I know personally I would not want to be put into that position.

I dont know for sure. And i wouldnt want to be in that situation either.

The matter should be looked into though , you cant just say ah well it must have been what was needed and just leave it at that.

[dakotaeagle]

I dont know for sure. And i wouldnt want to be in that situation either.

The matter should be looked into though , you cant just say ah well it must have been what was needed and just leave it at that.

I agree with you there. I was just watching CNN for a bit and they have laid 34 charges against a nursing home for negligent homicide.

Here is the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/katrina.impact/index.html

[Law]

I dont like nursing homes at all, i really fear for how peopel are treated in them

This situation is disgusting too.

[dakotaeagle]

Nursing homes aren't the nicest of places to be but for the elderly sometimes it is in their best interest. I work with a couple of sisters who's grandmother was living on her own at 92. She was unable to look after herself properly so her family put her in a nursing home. Now she is doing well and has made a few friends to boot!!

[Law]

Nursing homes aren't the nicest of places to be but for the elderly sometimes it is in their best interest. I work with a couple of sisters who's grandmother was living on her own at 92. She was unable to look after herself properly so her family put her in a nursing home. Now she is doing well and has made a few friends to boot!!

Good to hear. My ex girlfriends grandmother was in a really nice one here in ajax.

ive seen some bad ones too though.

Im used to growing up in your parents home having them take care of you and then having the parents live in your home while you take care of them. id hate to have my mom live somewhere alone.

[dakotaeagle]

Good to hear. My ex girlfriends grandmother was in a really nice one here in ajax.

The one I am referring to is in hamilton. My Grandmother used to be in one in Toronto and it was okay I mean it was clean but other than that I wouldn't give it high ratings

ive seen some bad ones too though.

There is always bad ones but there doesn't seem to be enough good ones to make it even out any.

Im used to growing up in your parents home having them take care of you and then having the parents live in your home while you take care of them. id hate to have my mom live somewhere alone.

This is the old school way of thinking and unfortunately it doesn't always happen anymore. I believe if you are able to look after your parents when they need it you should be there for them. They were there for us when we were growing up so now its our turn.




:bsu:

[I LIKE EGGS]

Doctors don't have the moral authority to play god, sorry.

Well said. Simple, straight, to the point....and above all TRUE.


I don't envy the position they were put in and not one of us has the right to judge their actions.

When they purposly take human life....yeah it is the right of every human to judge. Murder is murder. No doctor has any "right" to take another humans life.

And as far as not having envy for the position they were put in.....what position? Being a doctor? Or chosing to kill patients?


Unfortunately I think they did the only humane thing in this situation. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, ask any doctor. However, it's with the consent of the family. I know this is what happened with my grandfather. He was dying of bone cancer and none of the pain killers worked for him. He was in constant agony 24 hours a day. The doctors disconnected his feeding tubes and asked if we wanted them to "give him a little more morphine then usual to help with the pain".

Who gave doctors the right to decide what and when murder is just? The doctor stated that they only OD'd patients whom had not chance of survival. Those whom they "believed" would not make it out alive. That was NOT their decision to make. So what this is saying is....that ANY doctor given a situation where a patient may not make it out of a certain situation (say a fire in the hospital) and they have the right to end the life of this patient all based on their "Belief"? So without even giving the person a chance....a chance at a few extra days of life, a chance at fighting for survival, a chance at seeing their family again or a chance at saying goodbye....this doctor chose to take their lives based all on what he "believed".

I "believe" he gets whatever is coming to him!!!

[Custer]

It is easy to talk about what you have not seen, felt or smelled.

The only replys should be a prayer to give the Doctors strength in making their descisions.

The world has seen that a country as powerful as the USA, can be brought to it's knees by the power of Mother Nature.

The world will learn from this because the USA has been humbled.

To much talk about mistakes and liabilities.

It would be better if all put their energies into helping instead of critiquing.

I can write this because my home is not underwater. My cable, phone, fridge, stove and lights work. When I look out my door I see grass and pavement instead of water and corpses.

I am not wandering where my kids and loved ones are. Are you.

I can even walk to the store for food.

Humble yourselves.

[Mouse]

Grey areas are to confusing for some. ;)

[spinner]

Grey areas are to confusing for some. ;)
More so for those people who have never experienced the 'sharp end' of life.

Just as they would unequivically condemn someone from afar, they likely would never allow themselves to be in a position to have to make those decisions.

[Athlon_9800]

I don't understand how some are saying it was right to just kill people for being "beyond help"... What if it were your loved one... or you?

Like said above, doctors can't play God, no one can. It's not their duty to kill someone, because everyone makes mistakes.. even doctors. "Oh, that person was too critical so we shot him full of morphine and tossed him in the corner!"... Um, alright..

Yeah, we don't know the circumstances... that's the point. They could easily say they were critical and you would listen.

[Mouse]

Does God, or religion, hold sway over the facts???

I don't think so.

[Athlon_9800]

Does God, or religion, hold sway over the facts???

I don't think so.

Facts? What facts?

[Mouse]

Exactly.

Let's wait and see what shakes out.

[Athlon_9800]

Exactly.

Let's wait and see what shakes out.

Under no circumstances is it right to take someones life. Murder is murder... is murder. No natural disaster can change that.

[Mouse]

So, God is a murderer???

[Athlon_9800]

So, God is a murderer???

What? Well, I don't believe in God, sorry.

[Mouse]

Well, your Deity then. Did He/She/It kill those seniors on the bus???

[Law]

Grey areas are to confusing for some. ;)'


Seems a little too confusing for you apparently. Youre trying to simplify things that arent simple.

"meh they were old and probably .....might die anyway so lets kill em."

[Athlon_9800]

Well, your Deity then. Did He/She/It kill those seniors on the bus???

You're asking a stupid question, I mean please. Stick to the topic.

And no, I don't believe in a God of any form, I just used the phrase "play God" because people understand what it means and what "God" means.

[Law]

Why are people brining god into this? lets stick to reality.

the decision to kill those people shouldnt have rested on those doctors who were under stress and bad conditions. Who knows if their decision was based on practicality or based on their stress.

killing all those people would sure lighten their work load.

Nobody can just make that kind of decision without being scrutinized for it. Otherwise well have alot of sensless legal killings.

[Athlon_9800]

'


Seems a little too confusing for you apparently. Youre trying to simplify things that arent simple.

"meh they were old and probably .....might die anyway so lets kill em."

Maybe Mousemeat would rather play games on the topic.

[Law]

Maybe Mousemeat would rather play games on the topic.


Thats what he does.

[I LIKE EGGS]

Why are people brining god into this? lets stick to reality.

the decision to kill those people shouldnt have rested on those doctors who were under stress and bad conditions. Who knows if their decision was based on practicality or based on their stress.

killing all those people would sure lighten their work load.

Nobody can just make that kind of decision without being scrutinized for it. Otherwise well have alot of sensless legal killings.

EGGSellent points!!!