View Full Version : Cat is beyond anything I've ever seen
Well, I'm looking at buying a new sofa, replacing the carpet in a bedroom, and buying a new mattress, sheets and comforter for my oldest son - and his mattress is only 3 months old.
Little Saffron has turned into the devil from hell. She pees wherever she wants to (usually the bedroom carpet or on the sofa) and refuses to use the litter box. She poops anywhere, the last 3 nights being on my sons bed - yes, on his bed! She went pee on it too last night. His new mattress is now ruined from the smell that I can't get out. Our sofa is a microfiber material and soaks the urine right up. She just finished peeing on it again about 10 minutes ago. It stinks! She has literally ruined my sofa, my sons mattress and bedding and the carpet.
My house now smells like a damn zoo.
For the past 2 weeks she has been attacking the other cats. She ain't playing either. They walk past her and she hisses, growls like a dog then leaps onto them and straight into an all out cat fight.
We've tried everything with her, nothing works. I'm seriously sick of all the peeing and pooping on my furniture. She has a serious behaviour problem! I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do with her anymore.
Digiital
12-31-2008, 12:21 AM
How old is the cat?
She's about 16 or 17 weeks old.
Limey32
12-31-2008, 12:27 AM
Oh my.. that is hard to hear. :( I completely understand where you are coming from, but seeing as this is the first thing you mentioned since the happy adoption.. it is a bit of a shock! :( When did this behavior start? Just the past 2 weeks, or has it been all along? Any change in the house etc? I am with you on the "fed up" thing though... I am the biggest animal lover you could ever meet, but enough is enough. Was there a trigger date, or she was always bad?
Well, I'm looking at buying a new sofa, replacing the carpet in a bedroom, and buying a new mattress, sheets and comforter for my oldest son - and his mattress is only 3 months old.
Little Saffron has turned into the devil from hell. She pees wherever she wants to (usually the bedroom carpet or on the sofa) and refuses to use the litter box. She poops anywhere, the last 3 nights being on my sons bed - yes, on his bed! She went pee on it too last night. His new mattress is now ruined from the smell that I can't get out. Our sofa is a microfiber material and soaks the urine right up. She just finished peeing on it again about 10 minutes ago. It stinks! She has literally ruined my sofa, my sons mattress and bedding and the carpet.
My house now smells like a damn zoo.
For the past 2 weeks she has been attacking the other cats. She ain't playing either. They walk past her and she hisses, growls like a dog then leaps onto them and straight into an all out cat fight.
We've tried everything with her, nothing works. I'm seriously sick of all the peeing and pooping on my furniture. She has a serious behaviour problem! I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do with her anymore.
Wow, I feel for you, that would be my worst nightmare, I have four cats, two are 8 years old and two are 9, the only time I experienced the peeing outside the box is with a UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) each of mine have all had that once and one of them twice, for one reason or another over their lifetime. One of them cant be handled, he's a nice enough cat, however he's petrified of being touched or handled if it isnt on his terms, and he's the one that has had it twice. Each time with each of them they display the behaviour that goes along with the UTI, which is peeing outside the box, blood in the urine (not always) or litter box jumping, which is in and out of the litter box constantly because they feel the urge all the time just like humans with the same. With this one since I cant handle him like the others (he's ripped me to shreds before) I have a kennel, and when his turn comes in there he goes (getting him there is a whole other story) with a litter box, bed, food and there he stays until his meds are finished and I am sure he's using the litter box all the time again.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/dirtyboogie/dude.jpg
However, you say behavioural, is she spayed? Has she been checked out by your vet? It certainly sounds behavoural and it's going to be difficult if not impossible to correct.
I'm not sure what you're asking here, if you want suggestions on how to get her to stop, some people have had some success with a product called Feliway, you can research it on the web and see if it's something you want to try, there are diffusers and collars but I dont think it will be cheap and no guarantee to work.
Spaying may change the behaviour and calm her down but again there's no guarantee.
She sounds like she should be in a one cat home with no children to me. Sooner or later it could be one of your children she goes after.
If you're asking about how to get rid of the cat urine odour, that's another thing that's going to be difficult if not impossible. Some people have success with a product called Nature's Miracle. Another thing is locating all the spots she's urinated/pooped in so you can treat them. I'm talking carpets and furniture, I wouldnt with a bed. You can do that with a black light.
None of this is going to be cheap or easy and sooner or later your other cats may follow the same behaviour because of the odour, they figure if she can they can.
Good luck, whatever you do, it's going to be tough.
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Have you taken her to the vet..? A bladder infection or infection of some kind could explain why she does it everywhere etc..
Limey32
12-31-2008, 12:51 AM
Wow, I feel for you, that would be my worst nightmare, I have four cats, two are 8 years old and two are 9, the only time I experienced the peeing outside the box is with a UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) each of mine have all had that once and one of them twice, for one reason or another over their lifetime. One of them cant be handled, he's a nice enough cat, however he's petrified of being touched or handled if it isnt on his terms, and he's the one that has had it twice. Each time with each of them they display the behaviour that goes along with the UTI, which is peeing outside the box, blood in the urine (not always) or litter box jumping, which is in and out of the litter box constantly because they feel the urge all the time just like humans with the same. With this one since I cant handle him like the others (he's ripped me to shreds before) I have a kennel, and when his turn comes in there he goes (getting him there is a whole other story) with a litter box, bed, food and there he stays until his meds are finished and I am sure he's using the litter box all the time again.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/dirtyboogie/dude.jpg
However, you say behavioural, is she spayed? Has she been checked out by your vet? It certainly sounds behavoural and it's going to be difficult if not impossible to correct.
I'm not sure what you're asking here, if you want suggestions on how to get her to stop, some people have had some success with a product called Feliway, you can research it on the web and see if it's something you want to try, there are diffusers and collars but I dont think it will be cheap and no guarantee to work.
Spaying may change the behaviour and calm her down but again there's no guarantee.
She sounds like she should be in a one cat home with no children to me.
If you're asking about how to get rid of the cat urine odour, that's another thing that's going to be difficult if not impossible. Some people have success with a product called Nature's Miracle. Another thing is locating all the spots she's urinated/pooped in so you can treat them. I'm talking carpets and furniture, I wouldnt with a bed. You can do that with a black light.
None of this is going to be cheap or easy and sooner or later your other cats may follow the same behaviour because of the odour, they figure if she can they can.
Good luck, whatever you do, it's going to be tough.
All good advice Tess. :) Curious though.. ALL of your cats have had UTI? Some multiple times? Is that a trait with the breed? I have never had that happen to any of my cats. Just curious.
Oh my.. that is hard to hear. :( I completely understand where you are coming from, but seeing as this is the first thing you mentioned since the happy adoption.. it is a bit of a shock! :( When did this behavior start? Just the past 2 weeks, or has it been all along? Any change in the house etc? I am with you on the "fed up" thing though... I am the biggest animal lover you could ever meet, but enough is enough. Was there a trigger date, or she was always bad?
When we first got her, she was peeing on the bathroom floor all the time. Not a big deal, it was easily cleaned up, plus I'm just about to renovate the bathroom anyway and tear up that floor. She did poop a couple of times, once behind my very heavy armoire. I thought she just needed a bit more litter box training.
She stopped for a few weeks and everything was great. She got along well with the cats. I even have photos of them licking each other. Then, all of a sudden a poop here and a pee there, attacking my other cats for no reason, growling at them like a dog. The past couple of weeks has been really bad. Since my original post to start the thread, I just went into my bedroom and noticed she has also peed on the carpet on my side of the room. Great.
Nothing has changed around here at all, other than the Christmas tree going up a month ago, but she seemed to love that. She would lay under the tree for hours at a time. She always did seem to have a bit of a wild side to her I guess you could say. Although she was very affectionate and liked to be cuddled, she would also turn on you in a snap for no reason and start hissing and swatting with nails out. She got me a couple of times across the face doing that. I would be sitting there watching a hockey game with her laying on me purring while I was cuddling and stroking her, then wham, nails come out, hisses at me and swats me a few times then jumps down and runs. Half an hour later she acted like nothing ever happened... jumps back up on me looking for attention. She acts like she has a split personality.
Limey32, all different reasons, once was stress, she got locked in the basement for 24hrs and held her urination because she wouldnt go without a box. That was an expensive one. Another time the male that has had it twice wouldnt go past some people working in the house to the box and got one. (I learned on these ones and consider them my fault)
Males have shorter urethra's and they can get the UTI's from certain foods that form crystals. After that it's usually a special diet.
And then the long haired breeds can be prone to it as well. (for kinda obvious reasons)
All different reasons and then sometimes unknown.
Trick is to recognize it early and get it treated usually once they have the antibiotics it stops the irritation fairly quickly.
She's been to the vet for the booster shot. We talked to the vet about this, she said having her spayed might help a bit, but no guarantees. The vet basically told us the cat is a little terror with a wild streak in her (although this was before it got really bad a couple of weeks ago).
I do have some sprays to help eliminate the urine odour, however, if she goes on the carpet during the night and we don't know, it has already dried by the time morning comes. You can smell it in the room but can't see a wet spot. I get down and smell the carpet, and sure enough, I'll find a spot about the size of a urine patch that smells of it. Too late, it's already dry. That is how the carpet has been ruined in the bedroom.
I've tried that cat attract litter box stuff. Put her in it and she jumps right out and runs away.
Ahhh just had to break up another cat fight that she started right now. This is getting ridiculous fighting with two much bigger cats. She's gonna get hurt.
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 01:12 AM
She's been to the vet for the booster shot. We talked to the vet about this, she said having her spayed might help a bit, but no guarantees. The vet basically told us the cat is a little terror with a wild streak in her (although this was before it got really bad a couple of weeks ago).
I do have some sprays to help eliminate the urine odour, however, if she goes on the carpet during the night and we don't know, it has already dried by the time morning comes. You can smell it in the room but can't see a wet spot. I get down and smell the carpet, and sure enough, I'll find a spot about the size of a urine patch that smells of it. Too late, it's already dry. That is how the carpet has been ruined in the bedroom.
I've tried that cat attract litter box stuff. Put her in it and she jumps right out and runs away.
Ahhh just had to break up another cat fight that she started right now. This is getting ridiculous fighting with two much bigger cats. She's gonna get hurt.
Perhaps she is one of those cats that just wants to be the alpha kitty.. one kitty home etc.. like Tess suggested
I already told my wife that is what I thought. But then why is she fine with these guys at times and takes turns licking each other and being all affectionate with them? Doesn't make sense why she likes my boys one minute, then snaps and attacks them the next.
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 02:13 AM
I already told my wife that is what I thought. But then why is she fine with these guys at times and takes turns licking each other and being all affectionate with them? Doesn't make sense why she likes my boys one minute, then snaps and attacks them the next.
Oh heck.. that is what they do :) I have a 20 week old kitten here named Tippy.. now he doesn't pee anywhere but the litter box etc.. but he does attack, at times, my 3 other cats.. it's not as bad as it looks to us *laughing*
As for the pee'ing and pooping etc.. that could be behavioral but it could be physiological as well.. kidney's etc..
Limey32
12-31-2008, 02:22 AM
I believe you are a cat lover.. no question there. But there does come a point where you have to cut ties. Just like people, animals can be the "Bad apple". If she has been shown love, and rejects it, there has to be a point where a spade is a spade.. and found another home. Or if truly violent, like scratching your face etc.. then maybe put down. :( Just like killers in people, sometimes kitties are just plain crazy :(
Oh geez.. has come to my attention that she is not fixed.. I glossed over that.. are you kidding?? She is in heat.. and is annoyed.. get her fixed.. by jebus.
I will leave my post as it was my thought when I assumed she was fixed. But of course she has mood swings with male cats in the house.. or even alone if she has not been fixed. Female cats go absolutely batty for weeks at a time.. and then fine for a bit.. Just like a human woman... :) Only with claws.
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 02:32 AM
I already told my wife that is what I thought. But then why is she fine with these guys at times and takes turns licking each other and being all affectionate with them? Doesn't make sense why she likes my boys one minute, then snaps and attacks them the next.
Hey Ken.. get her fixed.. see if that helps with the behavior.. if not.. I would be happy to take her. Mindfield can vouge for me.. I still have Michael.. the cat he gave me 6 years ago :)
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 02:47 AM
I believe you are a cat lover.. no question there. But there does come a point where you have to cut ties. Just like people, animals can be the "Bad apple". If she has been shown love, and rejects it, there has to be a point where a spade is a spade.. and found another home. Or if truly violent, like scratching your face etc.. then maybe put down. :( Just like killers in people, sometimes kitties are just plain crazy :(
Oh geez.. has come to my attention that she is not fixed.. I glossed over that.. are you kidding?? She is in heat.. and is annoyed.. get her fixed.. by jebus.
I will leave my post as it was my thought when I assumed she was fixed. But of course she has mood swings with male cats in the house.. or even alone if she has not been fixed. Female cats go absolutely batty for weeks at a time.. and then fine for a bit.. Just like a human woman... :) Only with claws.
Very funny *laughing*.. that could be true except she's been acting like this since they got her a while ago
Limey32
12-31-2008, 03:12 AM
No April.. she wasn't.. she was fine for weeks, but got worse.. which leads me to believe she is randy, but not interested in the suiters. ;) Female cats in heat are right nasty biatc**s.. :)
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 04:34 AM
No April.. she wasn't.. she was fine for weeks, but got worse.. which leads me to believe she is randy, but not interested in the suiters. ;) Female cats in heat are right nasty biatc**s.. :)
Yes well.. all female's in heat can be.. especially when you make us wait too bloody long *laughing*
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 04:35 AM
I agree with Limey there.. if she is getting progessively worse then perhaps it is hormones so to speak and getting her fixed may just help.. worth a shot right?
sparky77
12-31-2008, 06:23 AM
you can also try some anti - anxiety drugs on her for a while... perhaps the stress of Christmas was just too much for her.
worth a shot to try some pharmaceuticals... or this is a natural liquid made by Omega Alpha called E-Z Rest that just might do the trick.
smirnoff
12-31-2008, 06:35 AM
That and she could simply be highly dominate which means she a one cat one home type.
At which point there is little you can do about it except give her up to someone else.
Fixing has no guarantee of correcting this but there are times its like throwing a switch and suddenly they are happy little campers.
I would try fixing as it could correct everything and needs to be done anyway.
As for the smell i have success with pheromone removal stuff that makes thinks smell normal.
Maybe fixing is what she needs. I'll call our vet and speak to her about it.
Limey was right - she was awesome for weeks, except every once in a while she would snap and swat me like I explained above.
I didn't realize a kitten only about 4 months old could be in heat already. I'll call our vet like I said.
smirnoff
12-31-2008, 09:30 AM
Maybe fixing is what she needs. I'll call our vet and speak to her about it.
Limey was right - she was awesome for weeks, except every once in a while she would snap and swat me like I explained above.
I didn't realize a kitten only about 4 months old could be in heat already. I'll call our vet like I said.
Around male cats it can happen easily enough.
Unless there are more indicators than you describe I wouldnt think she's in heat.
This site outlines some behavioral symptoms to watch for if you suspect your diva is in heat. However, they can go into heat as young as four months.
http://cats.about.com/cs/pregnancybirth/ht/oestrus.htm
And some general behavioural material
http://cats.about.com/od/litterboxproblem1/tp/caturineproblems.htm
lot's of info/links @ the bottom of that page
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Maybe fixing is what she needs. I'll call our vet and speak to her about it.
Limey was right - she was awesome for weeks, except every once in a while she would snap and swat me like I explained above.
I didn't realize a kitten only about 4 months old could be in heat already. I'll call our vet like I said.
I have taken care of soooo many kittens and cats in the last few years.. from my neighborhood alone.. all with their own personality traits etc.. some seemingly more aggressive than others etc.. it is true that cats should get fixed around 5 months or so.. and in an otherwise male feline dominating household.. her behavior really isn't that surprising etc.. getting her fixed may just calm those hormones down OR it may not but worth a shot. Then you can say you have tried everything..
AFTER she is fixed.. put her in a small room all to herself.. while she heals.. clean litter, food and water and a pillow or fluffy towel to sleep on etc.. BUT not forgetting to go in there and show her some love etc.. it goes a long way during recovery. It made all the difference in the world with my Buddy (3 year old semi Siamese).. she was so loud and aggressive when she was in heat.. calmed her right down. Now, she didn't have the issues with pee'ing and poo'ing all over the place BUT every cat is different so, being in heat is not ruled out.
If you have small children, make sure they are calm and loving around her during recovery etc.. well.. all the time really *smiling* some cats can get highly timid when children play with them like toys or whatever *smiling* I have one cat named Gothy who is very timid.. some of my sons friends were highly energetic around her quite frequently and she just became timid.. she will come to you when and only when she chooses to *smiling* and she does NOT like loud noises or anything like that..
I hope it all works out for you..
I'm getting kinda ticked now.
Just a few minutes ago she decided to take another poop, this time under my computer desk.
I cleaned it up and I went to pick her up to place her in a secluded room. She ran away and hid under the table. I followed her, reached under and picked her up. She hissed, swatted and scratched me with her nails out then bit me. Now she is hiding again.
I absolutely love animals, but holy geez, there is only so much peeing, pooping, scratching and biting I can handle.
Mouse
12-31-2008, 12:20 PM
Show her your the boss. Get her fixed, a.s.a.p.
If that doesn't work, you only have one choice.
You're right Mouse. Gonna get it done ASAP.
truckyfriend
12-31-2008, 03:22 PM
You're right Mouse. Gonna get it done ASAP.
Maybe your vet can investigate alittle with the possibility of the UTI also...might be a combination of things making your little friend so dramatic...:(
Aprildb37_2008
12-31-2008, 03:44 PM
Maybe your vet can investigate alittle with the possibility of the UTI also...might be a combination of things making your little friend so dramatic...:(
OR anything else that could cause behavioral issues.. there are many but can get quite costly too.
truckyfriend
12-31-2008, 06:26 PM
can get quite costly too.
:hmy:...I hear ya there...seems that if you care about something it always costs a little more:(.
T_Totler
12-31-2008, 09:37 PM
I have 4 cats right now, and have had many many cats over the years, and they all have different personalities. Some are more territorial than others, some are more fastidious than others, and, depending on the breed, some are more passive than others.
One of my cats was a bit of a terror when she was a kitten. She would go into moods swings (passive, gentle and loving all the way to aloof and aggressive).
She did do her business outside the litter box, but thankfully that was rare.
I stuck with her, and, as alluded above, she was totally different after she was fixed (at about 5 months or so). It really made a difference in her case.
I've had her for 12 years now, and she is still absolutely awesome.
Getting her fixed may not be the magic bullet in Saffron's case, but she needs to be fixed anyway so you might as well get it done now and then see how she is afterwards (after allowing sufficient recovery time).
Good luck :)
She just urinated all over my wife, who was sitting on the sofa. So she got my wife and the sofa yet again.
She jumped down, looked at us, put her head down like she knew she was in trouble, then ran into the bedroom and hid under the bed. She definitely knows what she is doing is wrong.
Limey32
01-01-2009, 07:32 AM
Sounding more and more like a UTI Ken.. never heard of a cat actually peeing on people.. seems like it is out of her control, and not an attitude problem.. get her checked out.. she may need meds ASAP.
smirnoff
01-01-2009, 07:37 AM
With luck they can fix both problems at the same time and make you life normal again.
Aprildb37_2008
01-01-2009, 08:45 AM
She just urinated all over my wife, who was sitting on the sofa. So she got my wife and the sofa yet again.
She jumped down, looked at us, put her head down like she knew she was in trouble, then ran into the bedroom and hid under the bed. She definitely knows what she is doing is wrong.
OR her shame is from knowing what she 'did' is wrong (meaning she may not be able to control it but once done, she knows what happened and knows it isn't good).. I have been researching the issue and have a few questions..
1) when the kitten defecates is it diarrhea and if so, do u notice any redness or darkness in it?
2) in the feces do u notice anything that looks like rice? or anything other than just feces mixed in?
It is my recommendation that you have the vet (literally insist upon it) test their fecal matter (test their poop). To rule out parasites etc.. the problem with that is, it may not be found the first or second time around.. adequate testing must be done numerous times. Giardia and Coccidia are some examples.. just to let you know, upon my research.. animals who go to the bathroom all over the house randomly and even on people etc.. is a result of a medical/physiological condition and not behavioral.. do not let your vet tell you that it is behavioral. In other words, your pet is not doing this on purpose.. it is out of her control and you just have to find out why.
No diarrhea. It is solid. No redness or darkness whatsoever, and nothing that resembles rice. Its just normal.
I'll get her to our vet to see what is going on and to have her fixed.
Aprildb37_2008
01-01-2009, 11:50 AM
No diarrhea. It is solid. No redness or darkness whatsoever, and nothing that resembles rice. Its just normal.
I'll get her to our vet to see what is going on and to have her fixed.
That is good.. that only narrows down parasites it does not, however, narrow down viruses etc.. so good call.. please let us know how it goes at the vet etc.. I would like to know :)
T_Totler
01-01-2009, 12:05 PM
OR her shame is from knowing what she 'did' is wrong (meaning she may not be able to control it but once done, she knows what happened and knows it isn't good)..
Never thought of that. Excellent point.
Mindcore
01-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Hi Ken,
We didn't think she would be so much trouble. My wife said that Saffy's two litter mates are fine. Her boss has one, a work colleague has the other, and they both say the cats are healthy with no issues.
I think Aprildb37_2008 may be right in that she may be ill with something. That would also explain the moodiness against the other cats. Sick animals are always very defensive.
We hope everything turns out well for her.
Aprildb37_2008
01-01-2009, 01:31 PM
Hi Ken,
We didn't think she would be so much trouble. My wife said that Saffy's two litter mates are fine. Her boss has one, a work colleague has the other, and they both say the cats are healthy with no issues.
I think Aprildb37_2008 may be right in that she may be ill with something. That would also explain the moodiness against the other cats. Sick animals are always very defensive.
We hope everything turns out well for her.
It has to be physiological or medical.. your thread states "Cat is beyond anything I've ever seen".. well.. logic dictates that if something is out of the ordinary then SOMETHING has to be causing it. I do not believe in evil kittens or cats.. it is not in their nature UNLESS seriously mistreated and we know that is NOT the case here sooo...
I have to ask.. are all your male cats fixed? I am assuming they are but have to clarify.. to rule out pregnancy.. it is unlikely but not impossible. That could also be a trigger for her mood swings etc.. if male cats are fixed and she has not come into contact with any other male cats that haven't been.. then you can rule out pregnancy.
The boys have been fixed, yes. No worries there - lol.
I'm thinking maybe she does have a UTI and will need medication. I showered this morning, went into my room and she was laying on my bed. She looked at me as if to say "gimme some attention!" so I spent about 30 minutes cuddling with her. She was licking me and purring like crazy - acting very normal.
I'll keep everyone updated on what our vet says.
Mindcore - don't worry about it, I guess we just ended up with the runt of the litter! lol At least she ended up here instead of with someone else who may have booted her out the front door. In a way it gives me an excuse to buy a new sofa set. We only bought the microfiber set a few years ago because of the kids and it is easily cleaned. Now that they're a bit older, we can buy something that we had really wanted, but didn't want ruined a few years ago. I was going to replace the carpeting throughout my home in the spring too. If it gets done a few months earlier than expected, well, then it does. My sons mattress had to be replaced, but whats a few hundred bucks? He now keeps his door shut, at least until we get Saffy's problem corrected.
T_Totler
01-01-2009, 02:12 PM
...At least she ended up here instead of with someone else who may have booted her out the front door.
Exactly :bsu:
After reading your initial thread after you adopted her, my feeling was that she wasn't going to be disposed of like a cheap bottle of wine just "because" she's a challenge right now.
I'm positive that a good vet will be able to correctly diagnose the cause and take the necessary steps to correct what ails her.
T_Totler
01-01-2009, 02:16 PM
The boys have been fixed, yes. No worries there - lol.
Cool, so no gang-banging possibilities there lol :d
I have to admire you for sticking with her through all of this, it's got to be difficult and very frustrating.
Any illness/disease with an animal can be hard to treat and often takes a few tries.
I'd suggest before investing in all new carpets and furniture etc, to have them cleaned by a pro, you'll need to erase the scent entirely so that she or any other cat isnt drawn to her marking. They have the industrial products we dont have access to. My thinking would be to make damn sure that she's not going to revert to this behaviour before making those costly purchases and having those ruined as well. I'd consider that some kind of insurance! ;) It can be so tricky.
I've had to deal with mystery illness on one significant occasion, she wasnt defacating inappropriately but was vomiting constantly, obviously feeling awful and entirely not herself, it took several vet STAYS three kinds of antibiotics and a total of about $900. before all was said and done. In the end the vet was stumped even with blood testing and urinalysis and the whole nine yards, so I did my own research, asked for a specific medication and that worked.
As for April's suggestion re deworming, I think that's common practise for kittens, they SHOULD be dewormed at least once or twice, good suggestion, and if she hasnt been done, probably wouldnt hurt. There may be things not visible to us.
Good luck, I hope it all works out.
3:20am - I've been in bed for half an hour. I went to turn over and I put my leg in a puddle of pee. My sheets, duvet and mattress are soaked with an enormous amount of urine. It looks like an adult wet the bed! This sucks, we have a pillow top mattress. I wonder what that memory foam will be like now. It would have absorbed the urine like a big sponge.
I went to get her to place her in a secluded room. She ran away of course and hid under my sons bed. I reached under for her and before I even touched her she started hissing and swatting at me again.
I finally got her out and placed her in the bathroom (nothing in there for her urine to be absorbed if she pees again). As I type this, I can hear her in there hissing away. The light is on, she has food, water and a litter box. Neither of the other cats are in there, yet she is hissing. What the heck is she hissing at? I'm really starting to think this cat is psycho.
I'm not so sure about that UTI now. When I think about it, she only urinates now on something soft (beds and sofas). If she had a urinary tract infection she would be going anywhere, but she isn't. She will hold it until she is on a bed or a sofa. I could be wrong, and I'll still see what the vet says, but right now to me that sounds behavioural. Almost like she's not over the fact that there are two other cats here and she is marking her territory to show them who the boss is.
Remember, she also pooped at Mindcore's house too before we met up with him and his wife. At the time we thought she had an 'accident'. Was this the beginning of her behaviour problem? They have two cats as well, and apparently she didn't like those cats either.
Well, time to grab a few hours sleep in the guest room now.
Edit: I should also note that just before I went to bed I was holding her and stroking her for about 20 minutes. She was calm and purring again. I put her inside one of the litter boxes and she jumped right out fast like she wanted nothing to do with it. I thought okay, she doesn't need to go. Boy was I wrong.
Limey32
01-02-2009, 04:51 AM
I am going to ask again.. uhm. why have you not taken her to the vet? You complain daily... reason? I completely understand your frustration, and also know you are wealthy.. so why keep letting it happen? Bring her in. I have to be honest Ken, it seems like an emergency.. and all you do is post. :(
Aprildb37_2008
01-02-2009, 08:07 AM
You are definitely more tolerant/patient than I would be Ken.. but in his defense Limey, he originally posted in this thread on the 30th of December 2008.. holidays are busy for everyone.. it is now January 2nd, 2009.. I am sure, being the cat/animal lover that he is.. will not waste anymore time now that the holidays are over.
I am going to ask again.. uhm. why have you not taken her to the vet? You complain daily... reason? I completely understand your frustration, and also know you are wealthy.. so why keep letting it happen? Bring her in. I have to be honest Ken, it seems like an emergency.. and all you do is post. :(
First of all, I'm not wealthy. I'm far from being able to retire at 33. Any money that I do have I've worked damn hard for since I started working at 7 years old in our family business. I'm not so sure what me having money has to do with Saffy urinating and defecating in my home.
In case you haven't noticed though, the holidays have been upon us, and vets like to take time off during this time of year too. Vets aren't open 24 hours. When was the last time you were able to see your family Dr. on a whims notice?
Deathhawk78
01-02-2009, 12:29 PM
In case you haven't noticed though, the holidays have been upon us, and vets like to take time off during this time of year too. Vets aren't open 24 hours. When was the last time you were able to see your family Dr. on a whims notice?
Actually I can see my familly doctor the same day I call. He also books 4 poeple at the same time. Thats not the piont though. Your right as to the vets not being opend. My dog ripped her nail off from my deck and I had to wait till after Christmas for them to see her. They where on limited hours. She had to live 3 days with a broken nail that she wouldn't let us even look at it without trying to bite us. Now that holidays are over I hope everything goes well for the little kitten. I hope it something simple as a bladder infection. There is a 24hour 7 days a week vet in Oshawa, but they see you comming.
chevy
01-02-2009, 03:20 PM
Ive heard of cats peeing on people....my cat used to. she had serious atitude and caused fights with the other cats....she climbed on our bed and pooped....just down right spiteful. When company came , check the shoes when yah leave cause chances were she would leave a gift.
We locked her in a room with a litter box and food. When she was good she came out, when bad she went in. Took me 2 months but she was a charm after that. Fixing may help...but unlikely....you have a serious cat attitude happening i believe....good luck with that.
Aprildb37_2008
01-02-2009, 04:14 PM
First of all, I'm not wealthy. I'm far from being able to retire at 33. Any money that I do have I've worked damn hard for since I started working at 7 years old in our family business. I'm not so sure what me having money has to do with Saffy urinating and defecating in my home.
In case you haven't noticed though, the holidays have been upon us, and vets like to take time off during this time of year too. Vets aren't open 24 hours. When was the last time you were able to see your family Dr. on a whims notice?
His idea of wealthy may not be the same as yours.. but regardless.. the money aspect basically suggests minimal time wasted in getting Saffy to a vet.. I could be wrong when speaking for Limey but that is my guess..
I understand the holidays put a damper on things financially, to say nothing of the time spent with families etc.. not sure where you are from but here in Brantford, we have a 24/7 Pet Hospital.. don't you?
Regardless.. your main focus (aside from work etc..) should be Saffy but you already know that.. we ALL just want what is best for her and those caring for her etc.. nothing more.
Aprildb37_2008
01-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Actually I can see my familly doctor the same day I call. He also books 4 poeple at the same time. Thats not the piont though. Your right as to the vets not being opend. My dog ripped her nail off from my deck and I had to wait till after Christmas for them to see her. They where on limited hours. She had to live 3 days with a broken nail that she wouldn't let us even look at it without trying to bite us. Now that holidays are over I hope everything goes well for the little kitten. I hope it something simple as a bladder infection. There is a 24hour 7 days a week vet in Oshawa, but they see you comming. I was the other TCM member that was interested in the cat.
You are lucky.. It takes two months to see my family physician :)
I understand the holidays put a damper on things financially, to say nothing of the time spent with families etc.. not sure where you are from but here in Brantford, we have a 24/7 Pet Hospital.. don't you?
Regardless.. your main focus (aside from work etc..) should be Saffy but you already know that.. we ALL just want what is best for her and those caring for her etc.. nothing more.
I live in the GTA, actually Scarborough, closer to Pickering. I use several regular vets, all have a variation of similar hours (which is why I use them). There is an Emergency Veterinary office they all refer you to in off hours. A regular visit is in the range of $40-$50. at the non emergency, every day vet. At the Emergency it is over $100. just to be seen, I know, I've used it, ONCE, once was enough, (unless I figure it's urgent) they dont do much more than examine, determine you could have waited for your regular vet and tell you to go to them as soon as you can get in. It's a waste of time and money here, plus the closest one is @ Yonge and Sheppard, not a short trip. Other than that I could go to Whitby. One of mine actually recommended NOT to go there unless it's absolutely necessary for those same reasons.
I think if she's not in dire need (life threatening), she could wait for a regular appointment if they have to, I'm sure Ken is aware that the longer he waits the more damage she is going to cause and is doing what he has to do to get it done. I went by one of the offices to mine this afternoon just out of curiousity and they arent having regular hours until Monday, and refer you to the Emergency Vet.
It's just not a cut and dried situation and it's his call.
We locked her in a room with a litter box and food. When she was good she came out, when bad she went in. Took me 2 months but she was a charm after that. Fixing may help...but unlikely....you have a serious cat attitude happening i believe....good luck with that.
This would be my next course of action if it is found to be behavioural, after first ruling out any medical situation, and was my point way back at the beginning regarding my post and the kennel, I'd set her up in there with bed, litter, food and try to instill what she should have learned from her mother, which she may not have had since she was abandoned.
Mouse
01-02-2009, 05:42 PM
First of all, I'm not wealthy. I'm far from being able to retire at 33. Any money that I do have I've worked damn hard for since I started working at 7 years old in our family business. I'm not so sure what me having money has to do with Saffy urinating and defecating in my home.
In case you haven't noticed though, the holidays have been upon us, and vets like to take time off during this time of year too. Vets aren't open 24 hours. When was the last time you were able to see your family Dr. on a whims notice?
Relax a little.
It's just Limey32 being a ... well ... a Limey. :ntb:
Aprildb37_2008
01-02-2009, 06:31 PM
Relax a little.
It's just Limey32 being a ... well ... a Limey. :ntb:
The same could be said about.. well.. you Mouse *laughing*.. Limey is as everyone else is.. opinionated and not afraid to put a to voice it *smiling* you Mouse.. are not innocent there *smiling*
All that matters is that something gets done to help Saffy and I(we) trust that Ken will do what he has to.. enough said *smiling*
T_Totler
01-02-2009, 07:12 PM
The vet clinic I've been going to for many years is the Warden Animal Hospital (http://wardenanimalhospital.com/) (Warden & Sheppard). They have 4 vets on staff so getting a fast appointment isn't a problem, and all the vets there are great.
Like others have pointed out, the first thing to do is to ascertain whether or not this is a medical problem.
If it is, then a good vet will diagnose it and treat it properly. If not, and it is in fact a purely behavioural problem, that's another matter altogether, but there again, a good vet will provide good suggestions in terms of "behaviour modification" techniques.
It could be a combination of all 3 things as well..(1) she's in heat (2) has a UTI and (3) behaviour.
It could also very well be that this particular cat would fit better in a single cat homel. All cats are unique. Some are less territorial and adjust to other cats being around, and some just don't. Time will tell.
I also think that cage that Tess posted above might be a good idea if you keep her. Cats, like humans, do "grow up" and she may outgrow her current behaviour - again, only time will tell.
Aprildb37_2008
01-02-2009, 07:17 PM
The vet clinic I've been going to for many years is the Warden Animal Hospital (http://wardenanimalhospital.com/) (Warden & Sheppard). They have 4 vets on staff so getting a fast appointment isn't a problem, and all the vets there are great.
Like others have pointed out, the first thing to do is to ascertain whether or not this is a medical problem.
If it is, then a good vet will diagnose it and treat it properly. If not, and it is in fact a purely behavioural problem, that's another matter altogether, but there again, a good vet will provide good suggestions in terms of "behaviour modification" techniques.
It could be a combination of all 3 things as well..(1) she's in heat (2) has a UTI and (3) behaviour.
It could also very well be that this particular cat would fit better in a single cat homel. All cats are unique. Some are less territorial and adjust to other cats being around, and some just don't. Time will tell.
I also think that cage that Tess posted above might be a good idea if you keep her. Cats, like humans, do "grow up" and she may outgrow her current behaviour - again, only time will tell.
All valid.. and all have been suggested 10 times over.. the rest is up to Ken now :)
Lesley
01-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Without reading through the whole thread here's my advice.
Is she fixed? If not get it done asap.
Buy a litter called Cat Attract. Petsmart sells it. It's pricy but it helped out a lot with one of my cats.
She sounds really stressed. I had a cat on "kitty prozak" I believe it's called clomicalm. Talk to your vet.
You should have one more litter box than you have cats and more than one place for them to eat. Not all cats share well. My female is always on guard at the food dish. She gets quite upset when the other cat tries to eat. I have two cats and four food dishes.
Try to give her a place where she can be away from the other cats. It's possible that she feels threatened by the older cats. In the meantime put her in a spare room or small area (like the cage Tess mentioned) with her litter, food and water. If she has no place to pee but her bed or the litterbox odds are she'll choose the box.
I have a bag of Cat Attract. I placed her in it several times. She smells it and jumps right back out. Even the other cats weren't all that 'attracted' to it. Waste of $20 so far.
Thanks for everyone's concern. I can't get her into our vet until early next week. I know there are emergency vets around, but honestly, I wouldn't take an animal unless there is really an emergency. Done that before with my dog I had a few times.
Saffy is now in the bathroom again for the 2nd night. This is the happiest I've seen this kitty. I honestly do not believe anything is wrong with her, and trust me, if I did think something was physically wrong with ANY of my animals, they would go ASAP to an emergency vet. Since being in the bathroom for the past few hours, she has done her thing IN THE LITTER BOX!! She is also playing with toys, knocking things off the vanity, and she has really changed. Much more energy and jump to her now. I think she needed the alone time away from the other cats. She is so happy being by herself in there. I have a belt hanging on the back of the door, and I can hear her swatting it back and forth playing with that too. I rewarded her with some treats for using the litter box.
Considering her behaviour the past two nights in the bathroom when alone, I'm really starting to think the problem lies with the other cats. I believe she has been stressed out lately.
Anyway, she will see our vet early next week (unless something changes and she needs to go ASAP). I think our vet is the best, I've had a few others in the past with my dog. They're like an untrustworthy mechanic....sucker you for everything and every test known to man. Our vet isn't like that at all, and that's why I like her so much. She will only do/suggest what needs to be done and won't rip you off with half a dozen unnecessary tests and treatments. So Saffy will be fixed no matter what (all cats should be) and we will see what is going on. My other two cats also see Dr. Claire, so she knows their behaviour pretty well. In fact, we adopted those two from Dr. Claire. Maybe I'll bring them along too and she can be around all the cats and see what is going on and suggest what to do from there.
Again, no worries to all the cat lovers. Saffy is safe and healthy. She is comfortable and is not in any discomfort at all. Although I was a little upset at her ruining furniture, I would still not see her out and moving about. I love animals - they'll always be your friend. :)
T_Totler
01-03-2009, 10:40 AM
Sounds like you're making good progress with her...
Based on the fact that she "behaves" when alone in a separate room away from the other cats is definitely a telling sign that she prefers her own space.
Obviously, you can't keep her away in a separate room forever, so it will be interesting to see how she behaves after being fixed and checked out by the vet to rule out any medical problems.
Aprildb37_2008
01-03-2009, 12:35 PM
Something I do not quite understand.. what the heck are the other cats doing to her..? From what you have said, that is some serious behavior problems then.. Did you put her in her own room after bringing her home to train OR did you just let her have free reign of the house with the other cats tormenting her?
If the latter is true.. it would explain a whole bunch.. she would urinate or defecate where she feels safest... i.e. your bed (when the others are close by and otherwise making her feel trapped etc..) under furniture or anywhere else.. especially if she is sharing the same litter box with those who would torment her etc..
Saffy was a baby when you brought her home.. and if she was scared from the get-go then how she is now.. however intolerable.. is highly understandable. Saffy is exhibiting 'learned behavior'.. not malicious intent etc..
Once fixed.. Saffy will need to be retrained.. that is for sure
Aprildb37_2008
01-03-2009, 12:41 PM
I have raised, cared for and still have several cats.. the ones I have found homes for well.. I have lost count at how many (my neighborhood is bad for getting kittens then abandoning them when they start spraying or in heat etc.. like they never anticipated that in the first darn place *sad*) anyway.. I have raised many from kittens and have found that some can be trained even around other cats and others.. well.. they simply need to be trained alone until they are older and more confident etc.. she is a nervous kitty and has adapted her self accordingly.. when taking your other cats into account and when you see her fighting with them is now clearly self defense etc.. as if she knows what they will do or remembers what they have done etc..
T_Totler
01-03-2009, 12:49 PM
One member here, whom I hope sees this thread is Mandy...
She's passionate about cats and takes in feral cats. I think she has something like 10 or 12 cats right now so her input would be valuable.
I have a multi pet home, I have 3 cats and 1 dog. After reading this entire thread it seems to me that your new cat hasn't established itself in the pecking order with the other cats, whether a loner cat or not in my experience all multi animal homes have a pecking order. There has to be an alpha animal, your new cat may desire to be the alpha but may not be large enough to dominate the other cats. Therefore causing stress, when shes in the bathroom alone she the "Queen" of her own little world and all is perfect. She will have to establish dominance or wait her "turn". I am going through a simaler situation myself with our cats. One of out cats died( alpha female) and when the new addition arrived he is a dominate male (fixed) other cats are female. Turns out hes a mini panther not a cat( lol), he's just over 1 yr old and is 24lbs. A female tabby I have is about 12 yrs old by personality would have been the next alpha she now pees on the sofa. So far I haven't been able to correct her but I believe that creating her own personal territory may be the answer. Good luck
My cats
Angel, Jasmine, Jinx
As you can see Jinx grew just a bit
Mouse
01-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Angel is a beaut. <Loves me some DSH cats. Hate fur-balls.) ;)
Something I do not quite understand.. what the heck are the other cats doing to her..? From what you have said, that is some serious behavior problems then.. Did you put her in her own room after bringing her home to train OR did you just let her have free reign of the house with the other cats tormenting her?
The other cats are not doing anything to her! It was Saffy who started it, actually. She came in and immediately tried to become the alpha cat. After a couple of weeks of hissing back and forth, they all finally got along and would even wash each other down.
Then, one day she just started turning on them and would hiss and growl when they walked near her, or pounce on them and start a cat fight. The one cat she scared off, and he will go and disappear now when she is around. But the other one isn't scared of her at all. He will walk up to her not at all afraid of her hissing and growling. Then when she pounces on him, he'll chase her away.
She definitely wants to be the alpha cat around here, but Nemo won't let that happen. He is king and him and his brother know that. Saffy doesn't seem to be getting that message, though.
Aprildb37_2008
01-03-2009, 02:42 PM
Perhaps I misunderstood you.. didn't you say something along the lines of "Considering her behaviour the past two nights in the bathroom when alone, I'm really starting to think the problem lies with the other cats. I believe she has been stressed out lately."..? So what you are saying is maybe.. she should be living in a one pet home or in a room all to herself? I am sorry if I misinterpreted.. that is what I was responding to basically
I'm not saying she should be living in a home without any other cats. That is the vets call; she's the expert, not me.
What I'm saying, and I'll try to make it simple, is that Saffy starts the fights then gets scared when Nemo chases her away after she initiated the hissing, growling and pouncing. He won't put up with her doing any of that, so then he gets mad and chases her. Then she hides and gets scared. But again, she starts it with the other cats. They don't start it.
T_Totler
01-03-2009, 04:54 PM
Almost sounds like my family growing up - I have 3 brothers and 3 sisters, 7 kids in all, and we all tried to be "boss" at some point lol.
Aprildb37_2008
01-03-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm not saying she should be living in a home without any other cats. That is the vets call; she's the expert, not me.
What I'm saying, and I'll try to make it simple, is that Saffy starts the fights then gets scared when Nemo chases her away after she initiated the hissing, growling and pouncing. He won't put up with her doing any of that, so then he gets mad and chases her. Then she hides and gets scared. But again, she starts it with the other cats. They don't start it.
You do not need to make it simple for me.. I grasped that from the beginning.. asking you about it was rhetorical.. meaning.. your statement was easy to misconstrue.. truth is, with animals.. what it looks like from a human perspective, may very well not be what is happening.. IF she is fine in a room all by herself.. that kind of takes away from the whole 'territorial or alpha kitty' perspective.. she would have staked claim to the whole house and want to be back in it.. not be content in the bathroom or separate room you put her in.
Sufficed to say.. the Veterinarian SHOULD be able to help her
RunningChick
01-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Ken, there has been some really great advice given so far and I'm really glad you haven't given up on Saffy! I had experienced this very thing a few years back. I had 3 cats. One of them suddenly starting peeing and pooping in the strangest places. Sofas, beds, laundry baskets etc... she even went on my son's jacket that he had left on the sofa. I tried so many things. The vet told me to put her in a closet. Not a room, but a closet because there is only enough room for a litter box, a bed and her food and water dish. Cats will not urinate or deficate where they sleep or eat so it forces them to only use the litter box. I tried this and she seemed fine after a few days, but as soon as I let her out again, she started all over again. It turned out that it was a UTI. I asked the vet why she would use the box when she was alone and I was told that it's not really the cat with the infection, it's actually the others that won't let the infected one use the box. They know if there is something wrong and they will not allow her in the box. You may never see the dynamics of this so you may not know it's happening. As soon as we treated her for the infection, she went right back to the box and the others did not interfere.
If it's not a UTI, the closet method might work. It reinforces the litter box as it's the only place she will go while she is in there.
Don't forget to spend some time with her each day. She also requires the social interaction during this time.
I hope this helps and I hope you find some success with Saffy. She is a beauty and I'm sure there is an answer to what you are experiencing with her!
truckyfriend
01-05-2009, 05:22 PM
Oh my, cats are so mysterious...I hope Ken resolve this so that it all works out.
T_Totler
01-11-2009, 10:28 AM
So Ken, how's things with Saffy?
Does no news mean good news? :)
RunningChick
01-12-2009, 03:45 PM
Dying to know how things are going Ken!
Any luck with Saffy?
Hey guys!
No infections and nothing wrong with her. Basically, this is just all a behaviour problem the vet said.
Anyway, we've kept her secluded at night, purchased more litter boxes, used Cat Attract and Nature's Miracle, gave her tons of attention, etc...
For almost a week everything was great again. She had used the litter box every single day until two days ago. She decided to poop under my desk again for no apparent reason at all. This morning she peed on the sofa again. No reason for it again.
For a whole week she was real happy. Running around the house like a crazy kitty, flying through the air, playing with toys, playing with the other cats.
Tomorrow (Tuesday) is fixing day. Our vet is hopeful this will help. If not, I almost give up.
T_Totler
01-12-2009, 09:19 PM
I think we're slowly getting down to the short strokes here....
If, after being fixed, (and allowing sufficient recovery time) she still behaves in the same erratic way, then my guess is that she's more suited to a single cat home.
When your vet said it was a "behavioural" problem, did he/she expand on that? - if so, what did he/she tell you?
RunningChick
01-13-2009, 09:34 AM
Sorry to hear that Ken. A UTI is much easier to fix than behaviour.
I hope fixing is the answer. If not, I agree with T Totler, a one cat home might be the answer.
The little guy I have right now was one of those. He wasn't fitting in at his original home either and had to go to a home without other animals. He's perfect at our house!
Fixing has been rescheduled for the 20th. The weather was horrible in Rockwood this morning. The vet was late getting in and got behind on everything.
T - Our vet didn't really expand much on that except to say that Saffy is stressed being around the other cats. Although she starts the fights with Nemo, she gets stressed when he gets mad and chases her. She also told us that we have done everything correctly and there is nothing more that we can do for Saffy except getting her fixed. Then she also told us if the fixing doesn't work, there is only one thing left to do; find her a home where she is the only cat. Her words, not ours.
Other than that, a complete exam revealed that Saffy is in very good health with no problems whatsoever. She is losing her kitty teeth, but that is it. Hopefully the fixing works and she won't be so aggressive to the other cats, then they won't chase her and stress her.
T_Totler
01-13-2009, 06:58 PM
Fixing has been rescheduled for the 20th. The weather was horrible in Rockwood this morning. The vet was late getting in and got behind on everything.
T - Our vet didn't really expand much on that except to say that Saffy is stressed being around the other cats. Although she starts the fights with Nemo, she gets stressed when he gets mad and chases her. She also told us that we have done everything correctly and there is nothing more that we can do for Saffy except getting her fixed. Then she also told us if the fixing doesn't work, there is only one thing left to do; find her a home where she is the only cat. Her words, not ours.
Other than that, a complete exam revealed that Saffy is in very good health with no problems whatsoever. She is losing her kitty teeth, but that is it. Hopefully the fixing works and she won't be so aggressive to the other cats, then they won't chase her and stress her.
So you now have your answer - straight from the vet...
Hopefully she'll be different after being fixed, but, if not, you'll unfortunately have to give her up to a good single cat home.
Keep us posted Ken, and good luck :)
RunningChick
01-14-2009, 08:32 AM
Kudos to you and your family for going all the way with her. Many others would have just given up on her by now!
T_Totler
01-14-2009, 07:15 PM
Kudos to you and your family for going all the way with her. Many others would have just given up on her by now!
ditto :bsu:
Just in case we have to give her to someone else, we already have another home for her.
My wife is a manager at First Choice Haircutters, and her bosses (the owners) are looking for a kitten. They have a lovely home, and no other pets. They're in their 50's and are well off financially. Just looking for a kitten companion to spoil. At least if she HAS to go, we'll know where she went and everything that has happened with her and we'll be updated with pics all the time. The kids will still be able to visit her too, so that is comforting to know.
But hopefully it won't get that far. We're trying everything we can right now, and are keeping our fingers crossed.
Mindcore
01-15-2009, 07:23 AM
Ken,
The wife and I never thought Saffy would be that much trouble. Her two litter mates seem to be fine. The wife did mention that Saffy was the runt.
We think you have gone above and beyond with her. I'm sure it would still sadden you if you ultimately did have to give her up but you have to do what's right by your family and for her well being.
We are keeping our fingers crossed that it all works out!
RunningChick
01-23-2009, 03:42 PM
Hey Ken, just thinking about you guys and wondering how Saffron is doing!
Hope all went well with the surgery.
Mindcore,
Sorry, I didn't see your last message until now. I usually only check the threads on the Portal page of TCM, and don't normally go into all the forums (too many of them).
Anyway, thanks for the kind words. Don't feel bad. You had no way of knowing how she would turn out. Just one of those things!
RunningChick & others,
The surgery has been re-scheduled again (this time our fault). Our vet has certain days of the month when fixing and other things are half price. So it was a no-brainer to wait a week and save $100. We should have known that and checked the date, but it slipped our minds until we looked at the calendar. So it is now scheduled for a few days from now.
Other than that, she has actually been pretty good by going in her litter box since my last post. Hasn't had another accident. The problem now is a major attitude. She won't think twice about hissing and swiping with her claws out for no apparent reason. She got my 2 year old this morning when he was on the floor playing beside her - never touched her though. She does the same thing to me when I'm holding her on my chest and petting her. She likes it and will purr very loudly and rub her head into me for half an hour, then all of a sudden she'll hiss and scratch me, jump down and run away.
Other than that behaviour and still starting fights with Nemo, she is great. Plays and eats all the time. Just that damn twisted personality that shows once in a while.
Mindcore
01-25-2009, 10:51 AM
Ken,
Glad to hear that at least she is using her litter box again.
As far as the attitude, our 6 year old cat is very similar except for the hissing and scratching. We adopted Cleo when she was 2 years old. It took over 2 years of constant love and patience to get her to the affectionate cat she is today but, like Saffy, she has a threshold for attention. She too will come to either my wife or myself for petting and, after a while, she will suddenly give us this distressed mewing, bite your hand, and run away. The frequency of this happening has decreased over the years but still happens.
Hopefully Saffy's surgery will mellow her out.
Thanks for the update.
Surgery went well (still cost me close to $200 - didn't save as much as I thought I would).
We were given medication to give Saffy for a few days to help with the pain. It seems to knock her right out.
Anyway, she is up and running around again, although we're trying to minimize that. She gets locked in the spare room at night so there is no fighting.
Still hissing at Nemo every chance she gets. My wife was petting her earlier while Saffy was laying on her chest. Fifteen minutes later, she hissed and swatted my wife right smack in the middle of the forehead, and Charlene banged her head against the wall. I was looking directly at my wife when this happened, so I witnessed the whole thing. I couldn't help but laugh.
Still no more accidents! Now, if I could only get Saffy and Nemo to go to counseling, I'm sure they could work out their differences. :)
Maybe when Saffy is a little bigger and better able to defend herself, I'll let them go at it and have a good scrap. They need to establish who is the alpha kitty in the house. Koko, my other cat, is perfectly happy being the omega cat. He doesn't care what the pecking order is. But the other two need to establish who is number 1 and who is number 2.
I know who will win that battle. Saffy better be content with Nemo reigning as the king!
Glad to hear there are no more accidents. Hopefully spaying fixed that.
Reading your post about her swatting behaviour really sounds to me like overstimulation. Every cat has a different threshold for this, some very low and some you can do most anything to.
My alpha is female, she doesnt like to interact with the rest of the fuzzyfaces in the house (there are four in total). Mine are persians and need grooming daily. Each needs a different level of grooming depending on their coats. I know when she's had enough, as although she wouldnt dare swat, scratch or bite me, she will protest verbally until I'm finished with her. As soon as I let her go, if any of the others are closeby they will suffer her wrath. I have two males one is a big black, he's easily got 5lbs on her and she will tackle him, hold him down to the floor by his neck and smack the living snot out of his head then she's fine. He's submissive and never retaliates, if one of the others is closer she'll take them down, it seems who is ever closest. Since she cant (wouldnt dare) take her aggression out on me, she has to assert that on her underlings. She gives a pretty healthy growl while she's at it. The black one seems a little 'slow' and catches it the most, the others get out of her way pretty quick. IF none of the others are present she will go sulk for a few minutes then be fine. She established her alpha status immediately, (they are all 8-9 years old) and they all respect that. They allow her to eat first, they gather around and wait for her to finish eating before they eat etc. They dont mess with her and she's the most people oriented of them all.
If you watch their body language, cats almost always give warnings they have had enough, after that point watch out. Fifteen minutes for a young cat is probably way too long in one situation like that.
There are ways to try to correct that behviour, I found a couple of articles that may give you some pointers in dealing with it. It seems like just as Saffy reacts to too much stimulation, Nemo reacts to Saffy. You have to try to break that cycle.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/41436
http://www.sfspca.org/resources/library/for-cat-owners/behavioral/overstimulation_petting.pdf
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=438&S=2
Maybe it's not that at all, but it sure sounds like it to me. She's young and if she was removed from her mother too soon she might not have had the benefit of her mother instilling this (mother cats do discipline their kittens) and litterbox 'etiquette' as is usual with cats which they also learn from their mother. All of these problems could all stem back to this.
Good luck I hope it all works out.
Mindcore
01-31-2009, 07:33 AM
Maybe it's not that at all, but it sure sounds like it to me. She's young and if she was removed from her mother too soon she might not have had the benefit of her mother instilling this (mother cats do discipline their kittens) and litterbox 'etiquette' as is usual with cats which they also learn from their mother. All of these problems could all stem back to this.
Saffy was abandoned with two other litter mates. They all were fairly small but I'm not sure what their ages were estimated at.
Now, that being said, my eldest cat was estimated to be 8 - 10 weeks old when I took her to the vet. She had been seen wandering around alone for about a week before she was finally rescued by my friend and then I adopted her two weeks later. I've never had behavioural or hygiene issues with her but, then again, she was the only cat in the household when I took her in.
Okay I've had it.
Since my last post the other day when I was ecstatic that Saffy hadn't urinated or defecated in the house in a couple of weeks, I think I jinxed myself.
Since posting that, she has done both, two times each. Each time I've told my wife I would give her one more chance. She really doesn't want to have to give her up.
A couple of days ago she went poop inside my sons snow pants, which he had laid down near the fireplace to dry. They got tossed and we had to buy him a new pair last night.
She urinated on the sofa AGAIN and pooped on the carpet again. We are waiting to have new carpets installed. We've already had the house measured and have picked out our new carpeting. Just haven't had it installed yet due to the cat.
A few minutes ago Saffy decided to urinate on my sons goalie pads. Great. The material soaked up the urine like a sponge. He just got his new pads at Christmas. They will probably be tossed out too. I imagine the smell of them when they dry will be disgusting. He would probably be laughed at for smelling like pee if he wore them again.
The nearly $200 I spent for her being spayed did absolutely nothing. It almost seems as though since she recovered from her surgery that she has been even worse, both in her litter box etiquette and with antagonizing Nemo more than ever.
I have done everything I can possibly do for this cat. I've spent more money than I care to add up. Spaying, medication for the spaying, extra litter boxes, Nature's Miracle, Cat Attract, snow pants, new mattress, and a new comforter (she went on the other one 4 times - washing did no good anymore). I still have to buy a new sofa, carpeting (although in fairness, we planned to replace the carpet anyway), and now probably new goalie pads. I'm sure I'm missing a few things.
I've tried locking her in the spare room with nothing but food, water and a litter box. As soon as she is let out, she will go and do it again. She has received more attention than our other cats, and probably even more than our kids! It's not like she feels alone or neglected and acts out.
Like I said, I've done everything I can possibly do for her. She has been thoroughly checked out by our vet. The vet even said that she should go to another home if the spaying did not work. There is nothing more I can do.
So here I am. I have now officially given up hope that her problems can be corrected. I can't afford to be replacing everything in my damn home because she is too stubborn to use the litter boxes. I think I've spent enough money now.
Had to vent a little - sorry.
Mouse
02-04-2009, 05:47 PM
Animals are not people, so we can cull the herd, when required.
Stop beating yourself up about this.
If any nay-sayers want to underwrite your further "adventures" with this poor thing, let them step forward, cheque books in hand.
Aprildb37_2008
02-04-2009, 05:50 PM
She is, apparently, a one pet family kind of cat... simple as that (not so simple for the people who love her now though)
Only you know where your limits are. You've gone further than anyone I know could or would. I cant think of any more options that havent been suggested and tried.
Personally, even though it would likely break my heart, I think I'd have to throw in the towel at this point and give her up regardless, for her sake and yours.
Sad, very sad.. we get so attached.
Thanks, folks.
Apparently she is a one pet per family kind of cat.
The reason I'm beating myself up about this Mouse, is just because I've never given up on anything before. I don't like feeling like I've failed at something.
I guess you just can't force a cat to like another cat, or break their stubbornness.
smirnoff
02-04-2009, 06:19 PM
Only you know where your limits are. You've gone further than anyone I know could or would. I cant think of any more options that havent been suggested and tried.
Personally, even though it would likely break my heart, I think I'd have to throw in the towel at this point and give her up regardless, for her sake and yours.
Sad, very sad.. we get so attached.
Sadly i agree with you.
RunningChick
02-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Ken, you aren't giving up. That would have been months ago! What you are doing though is everything you could. Apparently, what you have done so far is not what Saffy needs. Giving her to someone who doesn't have other animals is probably what she needs. So it's not giving up, it's just giving her what she needs. Don't forget, that if you are extremely frustrated, she likely is too. This behaviour is likely because she can't cope with her surroundings and she is out of control. You are doing what is best for her and have all along!
Don't see it as failure, see it as sticking with it to the end and discovering her needs!
Ken_ver_1_5
02-05-2009, 11:54 AM
Ken, you aren't giving up. That would have been months ago! What you are doing though is everything you could. Apparently, what you have done so far is not what Saffy needs. Giving her to someone who doesn't have other animals is probably what she needs. So it's not giving up, it's just giving her what she needs. Don't forget, that if you are extremely frustrated, she likely is too. This behaviour is likely because she can't cope with her surroundings and she is out of control. You are doing what is best for her and have all along!
Don't see it as failure, see it as sticking with it to the end and discovering her needs!
well said I agree.
T_Totler
02-05-2009, 06:06 PM
Ken, you have the patience of a saint. You've gone well above and beyond the call of duty with Saffy, and you are to be commended for your efforts.
Sadly, as others have said, the only choice may very well be to give her to someone who loves cats, but has no other cats.
Cats are very territorial. Some don't mind "sharing" their territory with others, but Saffy wants to rule the abode, so methinks she'll be better off alone.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Thanks again everyone.
The sofa got it again today :(
Sadly, I think I must admit that Saffy is probably better off being by herself so she can rule the house.
Today was my wife's day off work, but she will be speaking to the owners of the salon where she works tomorrow about Saffy. I don't think they adopted another cat yet. We'll find out.
I'll post again to let everyone know what happened.
Thanks once again to everyone for the kind comments. I appreciate it. :)
Mindcore
02-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Ken,
My wife and I feel so bad about all this. We never imagined that she would be so much trouble. I guess she really is intent on being the only cat in the house.
We don't think you have given up or failed at all, she is the way she is and only being a solitary cat seems to be the solution. We know you and your family will still be heartbroken having to give her up but it seems the best for all parties.
If there is anything we can do, don't hesitate to PM me.
Lesster
02-05-2009, 08:17 PM
I have truly loved each of the animal members of our family. I still tear up just thinking of my little fella that left us Nov.02.1996. When I talk about him I get choked up. I loved him dearly. But you've been tested way beyond anything I have ever experienced. I'm sure I would have "given up" before now. You've really hung in there for Saffy, but there are limits and this is beyond what most folks could stand. I bet you'll do your best for her one more time and try your darndest to find her a place where she can feel happy, at peace - and probably - in control.
Mindcore,
Don't feel bad. If anything, we're the ones who feel bad. We adopted Saffy from you with the intentions of providing her with a good home. We thought for sure that she would have loved being around the other cats having them to play with. I just don't feel right taking her from you and your wife then having to end up giving her to someone else ourselves. It feels like I let you down. I know it is probably best for her, and that she obviously wants to be away from the other cats, but I still can't help but feel bad about it.
Lesster,
We have already talked to the owners where my wife works. They are an older couple with no kids and no other pets. They were looking for a kitten to keep them company. They're very well off financially, and have a lovely home. We'll talk to them and see if they are still looking. I know they were a few weeks ago, and were interested in Saffy then if things didn't work out here.
T_Totler
02-16-2009, 12:56 PM
What's the latest on this Ken?
Nothing really, T.
I don't think they want her. They asked to see pics so we e-mailed a few. Some people just don't like an orange/ginger colour I guess.
I should also mention that we are taking Saffy into the spare room every 5 or 6 hours and shutting the door to leave her in there with the litter box. Usually within 5 or 10 minutes she uses it, then we let her back out again. Since we've been doing this there have been no more accidents.
Her and Nemo have sniffed each other a few times without any hissing and fighting.
Not giving up just yet.
T_Totler
02-16-2009, 01:45 PM
I should also mention that we are taking Saffy into the spare room every 5 or 6 hours and shutting the door to leave her in there with the litter box. Usually within 5 or 10 minutes she uses it, then we let her back out again. Since we've been doing this there have been no more accidents.
Her and Nemo have sniffed each other a few times without any hissing and fighting.
Not giving up just yet.
There appears to be some light at the end of the tunnel here Ken...
It would appear that, when she is in control (i.e. in her own domain by virtue of her "own room") she seems fine and uses the litter box. That's a good sign
Another good sign is that she seems to be getting more comfortable with Nemo. Perhaps the territorial pecking order is starting to take shape now.
There is still hope. Good luck :)
There appears to be some light at the end of the tunnel here Ken...
It would appear that, when she is in control (i.e. in her own domain by virtue of her "own room") she seems fine and uses the litter box. That's a good sign
Another good sign is that she seems to be getting more comfortable with Nemo. Perhaps the territorial pecking order is starting to take shape now.
There is still hope. Good luck :)
Her and Nemo have had a couple of short scraps after she has pounced on him. He just pins Saffy on her back then lets her up and walks away. Since that, she has softened her stance with Nemo. So hopefully things will improve.
I have to go out for a bit now, but I'll post some photos of her tonight.
Thanks for your concern though, T. :)
Some pics that I promised earlier.
sparky77
02-17-2009, 07:49 AM
Awwwwwww - she looks so adorable.... you'd never know she was the devil's spawn huh?
I have to commend you Ken for sticking with her and putting up with everything. I hope now you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and Saffy will turn out to be a wonderful addition to your family.
It sounds like you're now on the right track with her... I'll keep my fingers crossed that she continues to behave.
Mindcore
02-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Awwwwwww - she looks so adorable.... you'd never know she was the devil's spawn huh?
I have to commend you Ken for sticking with her and putting up with everything. I hope now you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and Saffy will turn out to be a wonderful addition to your family.
It sounds like you're now on the right track with her... I'll keep my fingers crossed that she continues to behave.
My fingers are crossed too!
Ken, you are stubborn like me. You get frustrated but you are so damned determined to make it work out. We had a similar situation with our one cat. She was driving us crazy and we came close to getting rid of her. It took almost two years for her to settle down and "learn the rules". She is now such an affectionate and, for the most part, well mannered cat. I hope Saffy realizes how good she really has it.
BTW, great pics! I can't believe how much she has grown.
Thanks guys!
Yes, you would never know she was the devil's spawn from looking at her. She really is adorable.
I am stubborn! That's my problem in life, I'm way too stubborn. :)
Hopefully we're onto something now by forcing her to use the litter box. Kind of like caring for a little kid - gotta go take them to the toilet every half an hour to get them trained.
Gotta keep trying until I get it right. I can't live with myself otherwise.
T_Totler
03-07-2009, 01:41 PM
What's the latest on this Ken? - good news I hope :)
Hey T.
Saffy hadn't urinated on the furniture again until just a few days ago. Then, she did again last night :(
She has taken a liking to Koko, and follows him everywhere. She even tries to sleep next to him at night. Her and Nemo have gotten along somewhat better, but there is still the occasional hissing and growling at him.
Overall better, but still not where we would like it to be. Gotta keep trying.
Thanks for inquiring, T.
Fezzik
03-20-2009, 09:52 AM
I realize I'm a bit late to this thread but we had the same issue with our two cats last year. Our Vet said that some event may have freaked them out and they became very territorial (probably when my mother came to visit). She gave us some diazapam (vallium) for them (very low dosage) This mellowed them out and after a few months we were able to take them off the pills. We have not had any "accidents" since then.
T_Totler
04-06-2009, 08:53 PM
So Ken, what's the latest on Saffy?
Funny you ask, T.
From my last post until yesterday - nothing. Then wham. Yesterday and again about 10 minutes ago. Both on the same sofa, inches apart. I'm mad/baffled/everything in between right now.
EDIT** I just checked my last post. She hadn't done it in one month until yesterday.
*sigh*
Make that 3 days in a row. :(
Dunno what to do anymore. There is nothing we haven't done or tried. Sofa set is officially ruined and has to be replaced this week due to the smell of cat urine.
Deathhawk78
04-07-2009, 02:24 PM
I just found something new about my cat. When he gets mad at something that’s when he pisses on my floor. My wife forgot to put his food down and a day went by and he peed twice on the floor. The other day I was playing with him and pissed him off. What did he do, he went downstairs and peed on the floor. I believe now that when my cat gets mad at something this is what he does to retaliate.
Maybe there’s something the cat doesn’t like. The food or where its litter is. Or maybe the other cats, or the way he is handled. These are just suggestion I’m not assuming anything. Maybe the cat just doesn't like your couch.
T_Totler
04-07-2009, 08:15 PM
*sigh*
Make that 3 days in a row. :(
Dunno what to do anymore. There is nothing we haven't done or tried. Sofa set is officially ruined and has to be replaced this week due to the smell of cat urine.
That's too bad Ken :(
If you're going to buy a new sofa set, you'll need to buy some kind of waterproof mattress cover (the ones that are used on beds for incontinency) to protect it. Those will protect the sofa by trapping the urine and you can just throw them in the washer to clean them.
I'm just thinking out loud here. Not sure if this will be a 100% cure-all solution.
Good luck.
Mouse
04-07-2009, 08:40 PM
Dump the cat. It doesn't like something there, and you are unlikely to change it's behaviour now.
Perhaps a single-pet household, as you suggest.
**UPDATE**
Over the past several weeks, Saffy has turned her aggression toward our other cat, Koko, the one she used to get along with. She has been starting fights, hissing, the usual, with him and Nemo still.
She also resorted to living in the basement in hiding. Barely saw her, only maybe once a day for a quick bite to eat, then right back downstairs into seclusion. This is definitely not a life for an animal.
So, I'm happy/sad to let you know that Saffy has been relocated. My mom had to put her cat down a few weeks ago, so she suddenly had an opening for a cat since poor little Max isn't there anymore :(
Anyway, we dropped Saffy off at my mom's house over the weekend. I am really, really pleased to say that she has been acting totally different there! She now plays, eats lots, and has the run of the house with no other cat to fight with. She used the litterbox 4 times in the first few hours she was there! My mom only lives 5 minutes away from us, so we get to see Saffy all the time. We were there tonight again. She really seems like a different cat now. She isn't timid anymore and doesn't hide in seclusion. Now the REALLY good part about seeing Saffy (especially for the kids) is that my mom is seriously wanting to move, and is looking into the house that is directly behind our own house. The yards are currently divided by bushes. If she does in fact end up buying there, I would rip the bushes out and create one extra large yard, and seeing Saffy would be no more than walking 100 feet.
At least I can continue to say I didn't give up. Being at my mom's is almost the same as being here with us. I'm really close to my mom and we spend a lot of time at each other's house, so this is as good as I could make it for Saffy.
So excellent news with a happy ending, finally! :)
smirnoff
05-26-2009, 11:02 PM
Thats great.
Sort of suspected she may be one of those that well never share a area with other cats.
Yeah, she was one of those ones. We knew it all along. I guess we couldn't get rid of her until we found the absolute, perfect place.
Aprildb37_2008
05-26-2009, 11:24 PM
I am sorry you had to find her another home Ken.. but soooo glad your mom took her so she is still part of your family :)
You did everything you could.. she just had to be a part of a home where she is the Queen I guess *smiling*
Limey32
05-27-2009, 02:18 AM
That is super news Ken. :) May she and your mom live a long happy life together. ;)
Mindcore
05-27-2009, 08:23 AM
While I'm sure you are saddened by the fact that she didn't work out in your household, and I commend you for going above and beyond to accomodate her, I am so glad to here that she is in a loving home and that she still belongs to your extended family. I'm sure you, your wife, and the kids can take solace in the fact that you still can see her frequently.
When you have time, my wife and I would love to see some updated pictures of her to see how much she has grown.
Thanks again for your hard work and taking her in when she really needed a home. You're right up there with St. Francis of Assisi, the patron saint of animals.:qtq::tty:
Can someone explain to me why it is that every time I post something positive about Saffy, she turns around and ruins it the same day? Every single time in the past when I mentioned she had used the litter box for weeks straight, she would go and pee somewhere in the house right after I posted here.
I talked to my mom a few moments ago. Saffy urinated on the bathroom floor right beside the litter box this morning, then a couple of hours later she urinated on my mom's bed, which is only a room away from her litter box. This isn't good. She has a very expensive mattress. All I know is she better not do it again, or she'll really be out of options.
I'll get some recent photos to you, Mindcore. Just give me a couple of days.
Mouse
05-27-2009, 01:23 PM
She might smell the departed kitty, and be marking territory.
I'm sorry to hear things still arent working out.
One thing jumps out at me, I was told by my vet that most cats need only to urinate once every 24hrs and that cats do not typically drink a ton of water (unless they're diabetic) by choice.. hence prone to urinary infection issues.
I know this 24 hour thing to be true of one of mine, as I had the task of collecting a sample for the vet for urinalysis so I sequestered her and it was over 24hrs before she 'cooperated'. The others I havent had a reason to keep tabs on. I dont use clumping litter, I use silica sand and it sinks to the bottom and is absorbed. I just wonder why she's going every few hours. I have inadvertently had the door to the room with the litter boxes in it closed for up to 12 hours and no one gets 'bent' or makes a fuss to get in. Trust me they would, they're mortified if they even get a 'little' on themselves, being long haired cats. However, mine are more mature in age than Saffy, if that makes a difference.
Having said that, it's probably behavioural and may not be breakable, unfortunately, I think you'd have to accept that at some point, and that would lead to other decisions.
From here, I dont know anything else you can try, you've gone the gamit.
Hmm... once in 24 hours? Both of my other cats have always urinated several times a day, ever since we first adopted them as kittens.
They are as healthy as can be, Tess. Not only that, but all 3 of them like their water.
I'm gonna have to research that now. I'm curious.
I talked to my mom a few moments ago. Saffy urinated on the bathroom floor right beside the litter box this morning, then a couple of hours later she urinated on my mom's bed, which is only a room away from her litter box. This isn't good. She has a very expensive mattress. All I know is she better not do it again, or she'll really be out of options.
I took your comment above, to mean (a couple) as two hours or so. She's young so that might be normal, I cant remember ever keeping track of mine as kittens. The one I do monitor, she drinks a lot she demands the water be fresh and changed several times a day, she drinks more than all the rest judging by how often I see each at the water stations.
I did a quick search and it appears to be not unusual for felines to urinate but once every 24hrs, but maybe not 'typical'
It just seemed odd to me but may be nothing significant.
Just talked to my mom. Saffy urinated on her bed again this morning. Now she's upset. So... I'm going over to my mom's house now to bring her back.
Right back at square 1. We're all just so damn frustrated with this behavioural problem. She has been fully checked out by our vet twice now, and she is completely healthy. She's not urinating because of my other cats, now we know that since she's been at my mom's for a week. She is the most stubborn animal I've ever met. She is gonna do what she wants to, when she wants to, and if you don't like it, too bad, she'll do it anyway. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
smirnoff
05-29-2009, 02:30 PM
Well theres always giving her to someone with a barn or the like so she can do what she wants outside.
T_Totler
05-29-2009, 06:54 PM
Well Ken, as other have stated, you've done everything possible with Saffy.
It's definitely a behavioural problem. Only one option left, and I think you probably know what it is :(
Mouse
05-29-2009, 06:58 PM
Ken, if you are near Lakeview Park in Oshawa, drop her there.
People will take care that she gets food. Many cats are abandoned there, and live well, thanks to the generosity of cat-lovers.
If you are not near Oshawa, I'm sure your area has a "drop zone" for unwanted cats, that the locals look-out for.
Aprildb37_2008
05-29-2009, 10:58 PM
Ken, if you are near Lakeview Park in Oshawa, drop her there.
People will take care that she gets food. Many cats are abandoned there, and live well, thanks to the generosity of cat-lovers.
If you are not near Oshawa, I'm sure your area has a "drop zone" for unwanted cats, that the locals look-out for.
I am in Brantford and care for at least 15 cats outside.. along with my four who are indoor cats.. some of us take them in during the winter.. in our basements overnight so they do not freeze to death etc.. and there is ALWAYS food
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