View Full Version : the old tax cut to create jobs malarky.
http://www.alternet.org/story/26509/
this just gets foisted on us regular working stiffs year and year out and we just keep voting these lying SOBs in to keep on doin it. And here we are worried about adscam and any other scandal like it's so much worse than this scam.
here's a nice cartoon someone posted in another forum that sums it up nicely. Maybe Homey *is* Walter...
;)
Are you some kind of Eco terrorist?
Give more of the middle class money to the Corporations and they will create jobs.
"Trickle Down Economics" anyone?
BillD
10-08-2005, 11:31 AM
It actually takes natural disasters to create jobs, as evidenced in the US. Bush's tax cuts were followed by continuing job losses until hurricane Andrew hit Florida, and a lot of jobs were created by the cleanup and reconstruction.
Are you some kind of Eco terrorist?
Give more of the middle class money to the Corporations and they will create jobs.
"Trickle Down Economics" anyone?
Corporations already have billions of dollars (surplus), and they don't create jobs. As CEOs and stockholders have gotten wealthier, jobs in north America have moved over seas.
And if you want some proof, just take a look at all of the "Made in Chine/Korea/India/Indonesia/Philippines/Mexico/Malaysia" labels on your consumer products.
You'll see corporations scrambling and coming back when your then average middle class "consumer" can't afford goods any more.
Tax cuts do not create jobs, period.
Walter
10-09-2005, 05:27 AM
Corporations already have billions of dollars (surplus), and they don't create jobs. As CEOs and stockholders have gotten wealthier, jobs in north America have moved over seas.
And if you want some proof, just take a look at all of the "Made in Chine/Korea/India/Indonesia/Philippines/Mexico/Malaysia" labels on your consumer products.
You'll see corporations scrambling and coming back when your then average middle class "consumer" can't afford goods any more.
Tax cuts do not create jobs, period.
Who exacty does create long term jobs? The government? The Unions? Not bloody likely! If anything they are the ones that cause the loss of jobs by undermining our competitiveness.
And keep something in mind.....the people who benefit most from these nasty, profit making ogres are the unions, where do you think they put their pension funds, and the government. where do you think the major part of their revenue comes from and the average guy on the street who invests his money in RRSPs and mutual funds.
Profit only seems to be a dirty word to leeches who don't contribute.....
Bogie
10-09-2005, 07:03 AM
Tax cuts to the consumers need to be sustantial before any effect would have any impact in the "theory" of job creation. $50 each is a joke in regards to doing anything. In fact that small amount will most likely cost the gov't about as much to process - so back to square 1 and nothing accomplished except political bravado and PR.
Take that same money, work with industry and potential employment creating corporations, to really create those jobs.
$50!? ... part tank of gas. And we know where that money will go.
Tax cuts to the consumers need to be sustantial before any effect would have any impact in the "theory" of job creation. $50 each is a joke in regards to doing anything. In fact that small amount will most likely cost the gov't about as much to process - so back to square 1 and nothing accomplished except political bravado and PR.
Take that same money, work with industry and potential employment creating corporations, to really create those jobs.
$50!? ... part tank of gas. And we know where that money will go.
I agree Bogie. We have been spoon fed this BS about having to hand the corporations who have consistently been making huge huge profits even more money in tax cuts so they can CUT jobs rather than create them... while you and I who really DO contribute year after year are the ones who actually create jobs. I've been a small business owner for some time now, and it has been said many times it is the smaller businesses are the ones who can create so many jobs.
Putting money in the hands of you and I the consumers makes far more sense than constantly feeding the top 2% of this country which to me is the road to disaster, and there are so many who simply cannot see that. They'll yammer about unions or leeches and parrot all kinds of useless things without seeing reality.
Ottawaman
10-09-2005, 10:19 AM
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber. --Winston Churchill
BillD
10-09-2005, 10:29 AM
Who exacty does create long term jobs? The government? The Unions? Not bloody likely! If anything they are the ones that cause the loss of jobs by undermining our competitiveness.
And keep something in mind.....the people who benefit most from these nasty, profit making ogres are the unions, where do you think they put their pension funds, and the government. where do you think the major part of their revenue comes from and the average guy on the street who invests his money in RRSPs and mutual funds.
Profit only seems to be a dirty word to leeches who don't contribute.....
Another misinformed post (courtesy of the Sun?). Most unions don't manage the pension plans for their members, as they are generally funded/managed by the employer. RRSPs only allow a small amount of foreign ownership within them. You can increase that amount by investing in Labour Sponsored Funds which invest in Canada. We have foreign auto manufacturers here because the government and unions forced them to be here. Union work forces are not necessarily innefficient, as evidenced by the GM truck plant in Oshawa being awarded the number1 status as the most efficient truck plant in North or South America, 4 years running, by the Harbour Report.The car plants are the most efficient plants(lowest hour per). The fact is that if you are employed, and make decent money, it is because the unions have set the standards, and dragged you along even if you don't work in a union environment. It's time to open your eyes and give your head a shake, Walter. You have swallowed the party line hook,line,and sinker. Also keep in mind that union leaders are elected, and be unelected if they fail to perform, unlike corporate bosses who pay themselves bonuses when they have underperformed.
Paying $25.00 + / hour for unskilled unionized labour is why many companies choose to outsource their labour to foreign countries.
Paying $25.00 + / hour for unskilled unionized labour is why many companies choose to outsource their labour to foreign countries.
But what has that have to do with the notion of giving the top 2% huge tax cuts and not the average person?
And I disagree, it's the corporations lust for higher profits that leads to outsourcing to countries that have workers willing to work for peanuts.
Who does this benefit???
And how many???
But what has that have to do with the notion of giving the top 2% huge tax cuts and not the average person?
And I disagree, it's the corporations lust for higher profits that leads to outsourcing to countries that have workers willing to work for peanuts.
Who does this benefit???
And how many???
I'm not talking about workers working for "peanuts". If I'm a CEO of a large company, and I can get the same quality and efficient labour for about, say $15.00 / hour (CDN) elsewhere (hardly "peanuts") then guess what?? - I'll opt for the cheaper source of labour. That's what CEO's are paid to do. Maximize profits.
I do agree with you that tax cuts are not the answer simply because they are often based on taxable income. The larger the taxable income, the larger the tax cut. I'd rather see the money spent on infrastructure, health care, and education.
Bogie
10-09-2005, 02:45 PM
Tax-cuts and "give-aways" are a gov't PR shell-game ... pure and simple. Called "marketing".
Who exacty does create long term jobs? The government? The Unions? Not bloody likely! If anything they are the ones that cause the loss of jobs by undermining our competitiveness.
And keep something in mind.....the people who benefit most from these nasty, profit making ogres are the unions, where do you think they put their pension funds, and the government. where do you think the major part of their revenue comes from and the average guy on the street who invests his money in RRSPs and mutual funds.
Profit only seems to be a dirty word to leeches who don't contribute.....
You would be dangerous if you knew what you were taking about Walter. I don't know any union that runs their own pension fund. The Crown Corporation that I work for, in the public service, has steadily lost pension money since taking it over from the superannuation plan/act, yet the bosses that manage it still get fat pay checks and bonuses. The closest union person is several rungs down the ladder and only there as an observer. If things were different we would invest some through the Credit Unions in ethical funds which are preforming very well according to my source.
Tax-cuts and "give-aways" are a gov't PR shell-game ... pure and simple. Called "marketing".
gasp!!!
You mean... it doesn't create jobs?
;)
Walter
10-10-2005, 05:21 AM
Good try gentlemen....but I don't believe I said the unions run their own pension funds. What I did ask was where did unions invest their pension funds? And I might be mistaken but I heard somewhere that one of the teachers unions have a large stake in Sun Media. But the bottom line is that I was responding to AMDs comment; "Corporations already have billions of dollars (surplus), and they don't create jobs." which is false. Corporations do create jobs and their "surplus" goes out to shareholders which is many cases are pension funds that benefit workers.
Profit is not a dirty word but it is acheived by taking risks and investment which seems to scare many people.
Really? Profit isn't a dirty word? And it is achieved how? As a small business owner I wouldn't know I suppose...
more bile from the 'left-right obsessed confused one, which once again has nothing to do with the tax cut myth.
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