Ontario knew of crisis 10 days before acting

[Just Doug1]

The Ontario government was alerted to the drinking-water crisis afflicting the Kashechewan reserve 10 days before Premier Dalton McGuinty declared a medical emergency.

The timing of events leading up to the airlifting of the first residents out of the reserve on Oct. 26 reveals that the Premier's office and other government officials were told on Oct. 15 that leaders of the community had declared their own state of emergency two days earlier.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051103/ONTNATIVES03/TPHealth/

[Tim]

it seems the ontario government of any stripe still hasn't learned it's lessons.

[frostyone]

I think McGuinty acted properly,actually I was surprised he acted so quickly.
Guess he remembered the "W" word.

The situation is politically and constitutionally complex.

There is an interesting (and forgotten) segment in the Walkerton Commission of Inquiry -- prepared by Mr. Justice Dennis O’Connor
(oops, that "W" word )

The segment is called CHAPTER 15 - FIRST NATIONS
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/walkerton/part2/Chapter_15.pdf

"The water provided to many Métis and non-status Indian communities and to
First Nations reserves is some of the poorest quality water in the province.
This is not acceptable."

That has been known since at least 1995 when Health Canada and the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development undertook a survey
of drinking water quality on Indian reserves across the country.

In response,the federal government doubled its allocation to water
and sewage capital for reserve water systems to $250 million per year.

The political problems are many.

"In response to a request from the Inquiry, the federal government described
the roles and responsibilities for drinking water on reserves as follows:

"Responsibility for drinking water on reserves is shared among First
Nation Band Councils,Health Canada,and Indian and Northern
Affairs Canada (INAC)."

"First Nations Band Councils are responsible for ensuring that water facilities are designed,constructed,maintained and operated in accordance with established federal or provincial/territorial standards,"

Justice Connor found that:

"absent a band bylaw conferring authority on Health Canada or its officers,
who are asked to provide assistance on water quality and surveillance programs,
the system must work by goodwill and cooperation. "
( good luck getting that from the neo-cons)

And most significantly:

" there is no provision for a role,even a voluntary one,for the province for ensuring the safety of drinking water on First Nations reserves. "

"The provincial government correctly takes the view that “Indians and lands
reserved for Indians ” are matters for the federal government and the First
Nations."

"The view of the Chiefs of Ontario has been set out clearly in their submission
to this Inquiry. They point out that the provincial water regulation regime
does not apply to Indian reserves. "
---

Given the political complexity of the situation Mcguinty did the right thing and acted quickly,, even though he was stepping on political toes and outside his jurisdiction.

Perhaps not so surprisng ,given the Walkerton body count.
Coonner's report on First Nation's water supply is interesting.
Even Connor treads softly.

[Just Doug1]

Dealing with emergenies on reserves is not only a federal issue, but (at least for Ontario) a provincial one as well.

The last paragraph in the Globe article was as follows:

"In the legislature, Mr. Hampton read from a 1992 Emergency Preparedness Agreement signed by Ottawa and Ontario that says the province is responsible for providing emergency assistance when requested by the Department of Indian Affairs or a native community (emphasis added)."

McGuinty had to act on moral, ethical and legal grounds.

The question is simply one of... Did he act fast enough?

[Tim]

Maybe not. But at least ( as far as I know...) McGuinty hasn't pulled a big Gaff like Harris and blamed the town for everything. Remember that one? That was real class.

[jovin]

Dealing with emergenies on reserves is not only a federal issue, but (at least for Ontario) a provincial one as well.

The last paragraph in the Globe article was as follows:

"In the legislature, Mr. Hampton read from a 1992 Emergency Preparedness Agreement signed by Ottawa and Ontario that says the province is responsible for providing emergency assistance when requested by the Department of Indian Affairs or a native community (emphasis added)."

McGuinty had to act on moral, ethical and legal grounds.

The question is simply one of... Did he act fast enough?

Baloney. This is what you call the classic red herring when it comes to debating and placing liability. The Feds knew about this problem at least a decade ago and decided not to act upon it. The responsibility is clearly Indian Affairs' and they should be nailed for deriliction of duty and failure to protect public safety. What McGuinty did was a favour to the federal agency. The province is a last resort when it comes to aiding Indian Reserves.

[jovin]

Maybe not. But at least ( as far as I know...) McGuinty hasn't pulled a big Gaff like Harris and blamed the town for everything. Remember that one? That was real class.

Speaking of Harris, he certainly knew how to deal with Indian problems didn't he? They didn't call him red-neck (ouch!!) for nothing.

[Tim]

Baloney. This is what you call the classic red herring when it comes to debating and placing liability. The Feds knew about this problem at least a decade ago and decided not to act upon it. The responsibility is clearly Indian Affairs' and they should be nailed for deriliction of duty and failure to protect public safety. What McGuinty did was a favour to the federal agency. The province is a last resort when it comes to aiding Indian Reserves.
well according to JD's quote, last resort or not, the provincial government has a responsibility to act if asked regardless of the dolts at the federal level.

[frostyone]

Well you have a politician's (Hampton ) interpertation of a 1992 agreement and you have the Associate Chief Justice's 2002 interpertation:

"The provincial government CORRECTLY takes the view that “Indians and lands
reserved for Indians ” are matters for the federal government and the First
Nations."

[frostyone]

" Remember that one? "

Let's see,
Close all provincial water testing labs.
Lay off 800 at the ministry of enviornment.
Lay off senior staff at Ministry of Health.

Act surprised when 10 die , hundreds gravely ill.
Costs of of tragedy total $155 million

Hey, it's just common sense.

[jovin]

" Remember that one? "

Let's see,
Close all provincial water testing labs.
Lay off 800 at the ministry of enviornment.
Lay off senior staff at Ministry of Health.

Act surprised when 10 die , hundreds gravely ill.
Costs of of tragedy total $155 million

Hey, it's just common sense.

In the case of Harris, it was common non-sense, as in the "common nonsense revolution". Just in case people have forgotten.

[Tim]

" Remember that one? "

Let's see,
Close all provincial water testing labs.
Lay off 800 at the ministry of enviornment.
Lay off senior staff at Ministry of Health.

Act surprised when 10 die , hundreds gravely ill.
Costs of of tragedy total $155 million

Hey, it's just common sense.
die hard conservative supporters seem to have short memories on that. There's one one forum up. ;)

I was referring to the gaff where Harris came in after the tradgedy and blamed Walkerton for not taking the resources offered to improve their system. When he learned that they had in fact did what he accused them so quickly of to do his best to deflect blame, he had to give a public apology.

[Walter]

Let's put things in perspective......

There is an agreement between the feds and the province. :ntm:

They are both liberal governments. :ntm:

They have both been in power long enough that they should have dealt with the problem. :ntm:

In fact didn't McGinty make a promise to undo the "mistakes" of the Harris government? In fact isn't one of the reported problems the fact that the plant operators are not trained properly? In fact wasn't this one of the major factors that led to the tragedy at Walkerton? :ntm:

Isn't a fact that the Ontario Minister responsible for indian affairs actually came out and said that he wasn't aware of what his responsibilities were even though when they are appointed there are briefed fully by the beauracracts and given a play book detailing their duties and responsibilities. :ntm:

Come on folks. Grow up and quit acting like whiny little kids. Your glorious leader screwed up again and blame Harris all you want it doesn't change the facts. This is happening on McGinty's watch......... :ntm:

And of course as usual you whiners are in such denial that you didn't or won't answer Just Doug's simple question; "Did McGinty act fast enough?" :ntm:

[Just Doug1]

" Remember that one? "

Let's see,
Close all provincial water testing labs.
Lay off 800 at the ministry of enviornment.
Lay off senior staff at Ministry of Health.

Act surprised when 10 die , hundreds gravely ill.
Costs of of tragedy total $155 million

Hey, it's just common sense.

Yes I do remember that.. and more.

I also remember two brothers who regularly falsified records and testified to drinking on the job.

I also remember a PUC that built "well #5" and then asked for the proper clearances to do so.

I also remember a PUC that seemed to hire based on who your daddy was and not what your qualifications were (I didn't have to actually remember this one. It still happens to this day).

I also remember a loose NDP/Liberal "coalition" that was in power during the introduction of the "grandfathering in" clause that resulted in two brothers being certified as competent to function in that post.

I also remember an NDP government that began charging local utilities for water testing.

I even remember actually reading the entire Walkerton report.

[Tim]

well there certainly seems to be a whole lot of 'the other guy did it!" going around and that isn't good for the health of those drinking potentially tainted water.

So now that we have established that the tories decimated the structure that was to help ensure proper water safety, the liberal/ndp hired their 'grandfather' to check the water, my question is, not so much did McGuinty act fast enough in this case, but what is McGuinty currently doing, to *fix* what Harris and his common sense thugs decimated, and how do we prevent his grandfather from doing another Walkerton?

[Just Doug1]

well there certainly seems to be a whole lot of 'the other guy did it!" going around and that isn't good for the health of those drinking potentially tainted water.

So now that we have established that the tories decimated the structure that was to help ensure proper water safety, the liberal/ndp hired their 'grandfather' to check the water, my question is, not so much did McGuinty act fast enough in this case, but what is McGuinty currently doing, to *fix* what Harris and his common sense thugs decimated, and how do we prevent his grandfather from doing another Walkerton?

The only way to do that, IMO, is to stop blaming any one government and accept that the biggest obstacle to change is "us".

We, the people.

We support this sort of **** through our voter apathy.

We support this s.o.s. through our obsession with the political 'sound bite".

We support this s.o.s. by saying that all politicians are the same and refusing to accept change.

We support this s.o.s. by allowing any new government to ignore its promises to us and not immediately calling them to task.

We support this s.o.s.

We.

You.

Me.

All of us.

[reiver]

Contaminated water and the like is hardly "new" on isolated native reserves. I had a history teacher 15 years ago show us a documentary on the subject, and who knows how old that was.

From what I can remember, the class was shocked that the natives had satellites dishes and big screen tvs, but little to no running water. Shows where our government's priorities have been.

[Walter]

You are wasting your time Just Doug.....there are individuals here whose whole existence revolves around blaming Harris for everything that happens in Ontario and Bush for everything that happens on the rest of the planet. It is verboten to criticize their left wing masters and possibly cause them to lose their spot at the liberal trough. Personal attacks and insults, probably copied from the Liberal Red Book, is the extent of their contribution to this forum but at least they present a good case for some form of population control. There mantle will always be.....
:ntm:


Yes I do remember that.. and more.

I also remember two brothers who regularly falsified records and testified to drinking on the job.

I also remember a PUC that built "well #5" and then asked for the proper clearances to do so.

I also remember a PUC that seemed to hire based on who your daddy was and not what your qualifications were (I didn't have to actually remember this one. It still happens to this day).

I also remember a loose NDP/Liberal "coalition" that was in power during the introduction of the "grandfathering in" clause that resulted in two brothers being certified as competent to function in that post.

I also remember an NDP government that began charging local utilities for water testing.

I even remember actually reading the entire Walkerton report.

[Tim]

You are wasting your time Just Doug.....there are individuals here whose whole existence revolves around blaming Harris for everything that happens in Ontario and Bush for everything that happens on the rest of the planet. It is verboten to criticize their left wing masters and possibly cause them to lose their spot at the liberal trough. Personal attacks and insults, probably copied from the Liberal Red Book, is the extent of their contribution to this forum but at least they present a good case for some form of population control. There mantle will always be.....
:ntm:
This coming from someone whose nose is so far up Harris' arse I doubt he has much worry over tainted water.
;)

Anyways back to balanced discussion, anyone know what McGuinty is actually doing to clean up er... *cough*... Harris' mess?
:)