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Walter
11-21-2005, 12:43 PM
I will admit to playing when it is convienent for me to pick up tickets and I think the best I have ever done is around $1200 on 649 but like they say you can't win unless you play, although this is not true for a segment of our population, and I found the following interesting although it won't change my participation one way of the other.


Lotteries: a tax on the stupid and the greedy?
CBC News Analysis | October 31, 2005

Tom McFeat Tom McFeat is the Producer of the Business zone of CBC News Online. Tom joined CBC in 1979, and has worked as a TV reporter, writer/editor and producer at The National and at several regional CBC stations. Before joining CBC News Online, he produced The Money Show for CBC Newsworld. He is the co-author of two books dealing with online investing and money management.


As I write this, the country is spent – recovering from a serious bout of lottery fever. It peaked on Wednesday (Oct 26th) with word of a single winning Lotto 6/49 ticket among the almost 50 million that had been sold. One huge winning ticket worth $54.3 million. And many millions of losers.

A good time, perhaps, to deal with a couple of the more persistent questions that surface every time lottery prizes head into the stratosphere.

Are lottery players stupid?

You know where this question comes from. The non-players (and they were definitely in the minority ) scoffed at the overwhelming odds against winning. “You’re wasting your money,” they cried. “You won’t win.” And of course, they were right (except for the people who actually won).

Certainly, just looking at the odds should be enough to see that. One in almost 14 million. Much the same odds as tossing a coin and getting 24 heads in a row. One actuary was even quoted by a wire service as saying if you bought a ticket with three or four other adults, it would be more likely that all of you would be dead within the year than be winners of the top prize.

But here’s the thing. Despite a better grasp of the laws of chance than most, the actuary admitted that he too had bought a ticket.

So what’s at work here? Is the actuary stupid? Are lotteries a “tax on the stupid,” as some say? Not at all. For one thing, paying taxes isn’t voluntary. Playing the lottery is. And I think most Canadians knew how unlikely it was that their exact numbers would come up, however weak their grasp of statistics might be. Every news story pointed out those long, long odds.

Playing this lottery – this time – seemed to involve something more than your average risk-benefit calculation. It was arguably about more than merely trying to win a longshot.

For many Canadians, that $2 was a harmless venture into a national dream. This was, after all, a dream shared by millions. For a few days, the Lotto managed to supplant the weather as the favourite conversation opener from sea to sea to sea. “Bought a ticket yet?” Everyone knew what that meant.

Buying a ticket, either by yourself or with your workmates, became the thing to do. English and French, white and black, aboriginal and Asian, the rich, the poor and the middle-class. All of us lined up together. All the tickets had the same chance of winning. We played together. And we lost together. The ties that bind a nation.

“Lotto 6/49 Players – United in Loss.” Imagine the commercials.

Are lottery players greedy, immoral and selfish?

Some people looked into the hearts of lottery players and saw a dark side. A “moral tragedy,” as one letter-writer to CBC.ca put it, saying Canadians should not spend a cent on “frivolous things like lotteries” while millions around the world are in desperate need of help.

But surely this isn’t an either/or situation. Yes, I tried my hand at the big lottery. But I donate more to charity. And the figures show that many Canadians do the same.

Ontario stats reveal that the average resident spends about $15 a month on lottery tickets. The median charitable donation in 2003 was $220 (about $18 a month), according to tax records. And that doesn’t include the millions stuffed into Salvation Army kettles, counter-top receptacles, the money handed over at school fund-raisers, the donations dropped off at Goodwill centres, or the millions of unpaid hours Canadians volunteer to countless charitable groups.

The finger-pointers don’t go around criticizing people for having a dozen pairs of shoes or three TV sets or any of the other things people don’t really “need” but choose to spend their money on. Perhaps their unhappiness has more to do with the size of the damn prize. It is obscenely large. No argument here. I mean, who really needs $54.3 million?

So buy that ticket, if you’re so inclined. And donate to a good cause, too. The whole world could use a bit of luck.

If you defy the odds and win big, you can always donate some or all of it to charity. The stats also show that about half of all big prizewinners do just that.

(Disclosure: I was part of two office pools for the big draw – one with five players and one with no fewer than 28. We won a total of $5. We are all still working.)

Bogie
11-21-2005, 12:50 PM
Good article. The trick is not to get wrapped-up in the "fever" pitch that occurs with every big "lucky pot" announcement or promotion blitz.

I buy the weekly tickets also, but the size of the "possible" prize/win has nothing to do with my small "gambling habit".

It is a problem, though, to many. And to think that such lotteries were illegal until the gov'ts figured a way to profit from them. Now, that said, a lot of the lottery proceeds benefit us in other ways - health care funding, for one. So maybe we all win.

Lee Anne
11-21-2005, 01:06 PM
If a jackpot is high ($10 million or higher normally) I will buy a ticket however I do like to play the smaller prize lotteries like Pick 3 although I do not play all the time. Back in the 80's when they still did the draws live one of my Dad's 6/49 tickets got 5/6 .. we almost died when that last number came out wrong, jackpot was almost $3 million, we ended up with just over $4000 =\

jovin
11-21-2005, 01:30 PM
Good article. The trick is not to get wrapped-up in the "fever" pitch that occurs with every big "lucky pot" announcement or promotion blitz.

I buy the weekly tickets also, but the size of the "possible" prize/win has nothing to do with my small "gambling habit".

It is a problem, though, to many. And to think that such lotteries were illegal until the gov'ts figured a way to profit from them. Now, that said, a lot of the lottery proceeds benefit us in other ways - health care funding, for one. So maybe we all win.

Remember when the Irish Sweeostakes were illegal and people selling tickets were actually jailed.

Insofar as lottery revenues funding health care, I'm totally opposed to it as I stated previously on several occasions. Any government that relies on gambling revenues and actually actively (and continuously) promotes gambling is basically morally bankrupt and not much better than the mafia.

Bogie
11-21-2005, 01:51 PM
Remember when the Irish Sweeostakes were illegal and people selling tickets were actually jailed.

Insofar as lottery revenues funding health care, I'm totally opposed to it as I stated previously on several occasions. Any government that relies on gambling revenues and actually actively (and continuously) promotes gambling is basically morally bankrupt and not much better than the mafia.
Maybe so, but we must face the reality of the situation - lotteries are here to stay. It is, in a way, a form of taxation. If the lottery revenue can boost funds going into health care, then so be it. Tax from right pocket or from voluntary left pocket.

funlovingtekcurious
11-21-2005, 02:01 PM
I will admit to playing when it is convienent for me to pick up tickets and I think the best I have ever done is around $1200 on 649 but like they say you can't win unless you play, although this is not true for a segment of our population, and I found the following interesting although it won't change my participation one way of the other.


2 bucks buy a dream is consider healthy. But many turn into mild junkies or severe addicts without themselves realize it.


Best is, Buy only when jackpot go beyond 15 mil+ limited to 1 single ticket only. When luck strike you, 1 is enough.:hys:

funlovingtekcurious
11-21-2005, 02:05 PM
2 bucks buy a dream is consider healthy. But many turn into mild junkies or severe addicts without themselves realize it.


Best is, Buy only when jackpot go beyond 15 mil+ limited to 1 single ticket only. When luck strike you, 1 is enough.:hys:

On 2nd thought, are those Lotteries draw real? I've seen it live broadcast as once did long ago. For me, I am skeptic it's just let a few won to lure more tickets selling, the rest gone into their own bank account or probably funnel to inner circle members.

Bogie
11-21-2005, 02:14 PM
On 2nd thought, are those Lotteries draw real? I've seen it live broadcast as once did long ago. For me, I am skeptic it's just let a few won to lure more tickets selling, the rest gone into their own bank account or probably funnel to inner circle members.Oh no, another conspiracy theory! They are real - monitored and documented. It is just that the odds are so bad that it is foolish to buy more than one ticket per game per draw. Odds are the same for every ticket purchased, and it doesn't increase with buying more tickets.

Your chances of winning $15 million are no different than winning $1 million. 6 numbers, random draw.

Law
11-21-2005, 03:28 PM
Nothing wrong with buying an ocasional or even IMO a weekly ticket.

Those who say its a tax on stupidity are just those who say that kind of nonsense to feel better than others. (yes it makes them feel good)

Buying a lotto ticket is the same as spending money on any other item that is not an investment.

jovin
11-21-2005, 04:46 PM
Nothing wrong with buying an ocasional or even IMO a weekly ticket.
Those who say its a tax on stupidity are just those who say that kind of nonsense to feel better than others. (yes it makes them feel good)

Buying a lotto ticket is the same as spending money on any other item that is not an investment.

Ever see the lineups at the mall lottery kiosks at any time? The most pathetic are the elderly. And, I don't say this because "I feel better than others". I feel sorry that an 80 year old bothers to waste his/her very limited time to buy a lottery ticket. Also feel sorry for the young plasterer who was ahead of me at a grocery store recently and bought $150 of lottery tickets.

Law
11-21-2005, 06:53 PM
Ever see the lineups at the mall lottery kiosks at any time? The most pathetic are the elderly. And, I don't say this because "I feel better than others". I feel sorry that an 80 year old bothers to waste his/her very limited time to buy a lottery ticket. Also feel sorry for the young plasterer who was ahead of me at a grocery store recently and bought $150 of lottery tickets.

Thats old people for ya. They cant go rock climbing or paintballing anymore so i guess lotto tickets are their excitement.

Im sure that some of those elderly wont miss anything amazing by spending some time at a kiosk buying lotto tickets. Why feel sorry over something like this? feel sorry for sick kids, or homeless people, not for those who have a hobby.

Bogie
11-21-2005, 07:01 PM
Thats old people for ya. They cant go rock climbing or paintballing anymore so i guess lotto tickets are their excitement. Never did go paintballing and never will ... but did do real rock climbing, not the pretend stuff :d

Im sure that some of those elderly wont miss anything amazing by spending some time at a kiosk buying lotto tickets. Why feel sorry over something like this? feel sorry for sick kids, or homeless people, not for those who have a hobby.I agree, but must add, "What does being elderly have to do with buying lottery tickets?". They are just people of a different age - it has nothing to do with being elderly. The age group I see most is 30-50.

Lottery ticket booths are nothing ... go visit the Slots sometime ... now there is pitiful! Again, same age group.

jovin
11-21-2005, 07:28 PM
Never did go paintballing and never will ... but did do real rock climbing, not the pretend stuff :d
I agree, but must add, "What does being elderly have to do with buying lottery tickets?". They are just people of a different age - it has nothing to do with being elderly. The age group I see most is 30-50.

Lottery ticket booths are nothing ... go visit the Slots sometime ... now there is pitiful! Again, same age group.

Funny you should say that. Now there's something that really, really annoys me these days: highway advertising of gambling by the province. Anytime you're near a horse race track there is an ad tacked onto the name of the track, one of those "new" traffic signs advertising "slot machines". That's just perverted!

Law
11-21-2005, 11:22 PM
Never did go paintballing and never will ... but did do real rock climbing, not the pretend stuff :d
I agree, but must add, "What does being elderly have to do with buying lottery tickets?". They are just people of a different age - it has nothing to do with being elderly. The age group I see most is 30-50.

Lottery ticket booths are nothing ... go visit the Slots sometime ... now there is pitiful! Again, same age group.

If you want i can let you stand there while i shoot paint at you.... :)

ok bad idea.

I guess all i care to say is that while some have become addicted as a girl i know has ( my friend's sister spends thousands at casinos and hundreds in lotto tickets ) many dont and to most its just a fun thing to do alone or in a group. Nothing stupid about it since most people know that the chances are that they wont win.

Its risk , people know they will most likely lose but wouldnt it be gravy if you won?

jovin
11-22-2005, 09:41 AM
If you want i can let you stand there while i shoot paint at you.... :)

ok bad idea.

I guess all i care to say is that while some have become addicted as a girl i know has ( my friend's sister spends thousands at casinos and hundreds in lotto tickets ) many dont and to most its just a fun thing to do alone or in a group. Nothing stupid about it since most people know that the chances are that they wont win.

Its risk , people know they will most likely lose but wouldnt it be gravy if you won?

You haven't been paying attention Law. Every winner I saw being interviewed as they hold the cheque has publicly sworn that it won't change them or their lives or their lifestyles and they still plan to stay at their current job. Here's the follow-up question then: why did you buy a ticket? People say funny things sometimes. BTW anybody that says they are going to remain at their job should be automatically disqualified as they are not of sound mind.

Law
11-22-2005, 12:33 PM
You haven't been paying attention Law. Every winner I saw being interviewed as they hold the cheque has publicly sworn that it won't change them or their lives or their lifestyles and they still plan to stay at their current job. Here's the follow-up question then: why did you buy a ticket? People say funny things sometimes. BTW anybody that says they are going to remain at their job should be automatically disqualified as they are not of sound mind.

You make no sense. What is the point you are trying to make? Some say they wont change their life if they win? so what?

Why did i buy a ticket? why do you think?

Mouse
11-22-2005, 12:53 PM
BTW anybody that says they are going to remain at their job should be automatically disqualified as they are not of sound mind.
That a very large statement.

What if he/she is, say, a pediatrician who love their work, and the little people in her care?

Given time I could think of many more, but you get the idea.

Lee Anne
11-22-2005, 01:24 PM
My father is 81 and buys lottery tickets for every draw and not just one or two but most likely spends $50 or $60 a week on them .. he always said if he won a million $ + jackpot he would take $150,000 and give me the rest so I keep crossing my fingers :d

Bogie
11-22-2005, 01:55 PM
Did you see the World War II vet that just won the 4.7 million in Ontario (Newmarket)?

jovin
11-22-2005, 01:58 PM
You make no sense. What is the point you are trying to make? Some say they wont change their life if they win? so what?

Why did i buy a ticket? why do you think?

You must be still young Law. jovin's rule of life #1: big money changes everybody's life, no exception.

Law
11-22-2005, 02:25 PM
You must be still young Law. jovin's rule of life #1: big money changes everybody's life, no exception.

Your rules of life dont apply to me jovin. sorry. I never said that money doesnt chage a persons life , but a person may chose to stick with what they are doing before they won the money.

Lets get back on topic though. I have lately been playing my numbers weekly. So, I want you Jovin to tell me how that makes me stupid. ANd try not to use any more of your laws of life becuase those belong in the last laugh forum.

Mouse
11-22-2005, 02:58 PM
How?

13,983,816 to 1,

Law
11-22-2005, 03:03 PM
How?

13,983,816 to 1,

Should people never do anything where the odds are against you?

And sheesh its a 2 dollar ticket. There are worse things that people spend money on all the time.

Bogie
11-22-2005, 03:10 PM
How?
13,983,816 to 1,
Ahh, yes, but to be that "1" !

I gamble every time I get behind the wheel of my car, and my reward is to "arrive alive".

Life, itself, is a gamble.

I am not validating insane gambling addictions, but if I, or anybody else, so choose to spend a few bucks, what the heck.

You won't find me at the casinos or slots - been there, done that, no fun. Now, if I get the urge I just drive by slowly, open the window, and throw out a $20 LOL

Les Shaw
11-22-2005, 03:30 PM
Our lifes revolve around stories , Movies, TV .. Blogs ... All Stories...

Some how we have become belivers in the underdog always wins, some Fantasy that there will be a happy ending...

So we buy our tickets to follow the dream that we see in almost every movie and some news casts..

Hope is the only thing we cling to..

So 2 bucks to dream for a few hours may be worth it.

Bogie
11-22-2005, 03:47 PM
Our lifes revolve around stories , Movies, TV .. Blogs ... All Stories...
Some how we have become belivers in the underdog always wins, some Fantasy that there will be a happy ending...
So we buy our tickets to follow the dream that we see in almost every movie and some news casts..
Hope is the only thing we cling to..
So 2 bucks to dream for a few hours may be worth it.
He rarely speaks, but when the TCM Dali Lama comes down from the mountain - such wisdom!

As we have learned from watching life around us ... it is precious, it is short, it is uncertain. Live and enjoy it while you can.

I don't drink coffee, I don't drink, I don't smoke. So what's a few bucks a week on lottery tickets!

Remember - we, through time, have had gold rushes, blazed new frontiers, travelled west and even unknown lands without knowing what we were going to ... life, itself, is a gamble.

This thread, alone, shows you how well-off we all are. Not too many years ago finding a quarter, or even a dollar bill, was such good luck and quickly tucked away in our pocket.

The luxury of gambling for the common person is a sign of prosperity.

T_Totler
11-22-2005, 08:52 PM
I generally only buy about $5.00 worth when the jackpot gets high and I happen to see the sign at the counter announcing the size of it. It's an impulse buy for me more than anything else. I spend way more on coffee.