User ignorance and bad behaviour - leading cause of spam

[Bogie]

No matter what we do to protect users' computers, it all reverts back to "the nut behind the wheel". Cars are safer now, than ever before, airbags, side protection, etc., but "accidents" still happen. At least 99% of all "accidents" are preventable by all vehicles involved - not just the one who created the mess in the first place. Same goes for email spam, viruses, trojans, and malware.

According to an analyst at Radicati (http://www.aunty-spam.com/users-are-ignorant-badly-behaved-and-the-leading-cause-of-spam/), and related reports by InformationWeek and the BBC, “user ignorance” and “bad behaviour” is the leading cause of spam. According to Marcel Nienhuis, an analyst with Radicati, “Major advancements in technology approaches that routinely achieve 90%-plus catch-rates are becoming widely available, yet no technology in the world can protect an organization if users exercise bad E-mail behavior.”

[Tim]

That might be true to an extent, but the danger in this is excusing or not focusing on nailing the spammers. I know you don't intend this, but we need to nail them a lot more if there is going to be a dent.

[Bogie]

That might be true to an extent, but the danger in this is excusing or not focusing on nailing the spammers. I know you don't intend this, but we need to nail them a lot more if there is going to be a dent.
If the user education issue is not addressed, then the "problem" will not go away.

Yes, without any doubt, at all, the creators of real Spam need to be caught and prosecuted. A difficult task, though, as many political jurisdictions are involved. But, that won't stop it as new ones simply popup to takes the business of the one who was caught.

User-education is key, and paramount, to a more immediate impact on bandwidth usage being gobbled up by the spammers. Also, the more successful the spammers are, the more we will see. Like any business, profit is the name of the game.

There are actually two sectors of "spam" that need to be addressed.

1. Massive shotgun "sales" spam - such as "increasing potency medication", etc.
and
2. Trojan/malware spam that takes over the user's computer and converts it to a SMTP server for further "spreading the word" - is the worst of all.

Both the above requires user-action to work.

Like preventing the spread of aids, and other diseases, education is required - and on-going, never-ending.

[Tim]

I couldn't agree with you more that educating users to protect themselves will help. But we are talking millions of everyday users who simply want to push that button, send email, go book airline flights whatever whatever. What needs to happen is to make it easier for users to protect themselves. I have a bunch of friends who are ready to drop kick their computers after having it compromised by virus/spyware etc., after trying really hard to do all that is suggested to them. *over and over*. One friend in particular is on her 3rd go after having her system cleaned and fixed in the last 6 months!. She has all the spyware checkers and what have you you need. Problem? She is a regular everyday user.
I'm a firm believer that OS companies need to take a much much more aggressive role in making it less of a chore/nightmare to turn your computer on.
We here in TCM are somewhat a little smug, because whether you run a PC or Mac or linux, we all here tend to be a lot more educated because we're interested in running computers, unlike the majority of users out there.

But yes education can't hurt. :)

[Bogie]

What needs to happen is to make it easier for users to protect themselves. I have a bunch of friends who are ready to drop kick their computers after having it compromised by virus/spyware etc., after trying really hard to do all that is suggested to them. *over and over*. One friend in particular is on her 3rd go after having her system cleaned and fixed in the last 6 months!. Agreed, but from what? Viruses, yes. Trojans, yes. Malware, yes. But user-created situations? GM can make your car as safe as possible, and as easy to use as possible, but they can't stop you from running into another car.


She has all the spyware checkers and what have you you need. Problem? She is a regular everyday user. A regular "uneducated" user. So, she has the bullet-proof vest but steps into the line of fire and hopes that it protects her completely. I have a friend who has diabetes - takes his medications and feels that it will protect him when he eats something he isn't supposed to. The more he eats, the more meds he takes. Doesn't work that way.



I'm a firm believer that OS companies need to take a much much more aggressive role in making it less of a chore/nightmare to turn your computer on. How can it be much easier than pushing the button and letting it boot-up? Only thing I would like to see is that all Windows boxes come "complete" with AV, etc. Something the courts and competitors have been trying to stop. Can't win for losing!

Macs are better protected than Windows - for now. If Mac was a bigger target, we might be trying to protect them even more also. That said, I'd love to be able to afford the biggest and best Mac available, and keep my Windows boxes as well.



We here in TCM are somewhat a little smug, because whether you run a PC or Mac or linux, we all here tend to be a lot more educated because we're interested in running computers, unlike the majority of users out there. I wouldn't say "smug" covers all TCMers, but I have seen comments like "just Google it", or a vague comment on how to fix something that only someone technical would understand. Most people don't know how "to Google it" - if they did, we wouldn't get to meet them here :D


But yes education can't hurt. :)
Bang on - education is the future of civilization. It is the reasaon we have progressed so far, in so little time, in the last 50 years. It is the reason why most TCMers are here.

It is up to those of us who do know, to educate those who don't. If they can't "learn", then assist in any way possible to make their digital life easier and less stressful. You'll never eliminate the "ooppss, but it was from Bill/Betty, and I know them, and it was only a joke they sent!".

[Tim]

Agreed, but from what? Viruses, yes. Trojans, yes. Malware, yes. But user-created situations? GM can make your car as safe as possible, and as easy to use as possible, but they can't stop you from running into another car.
This is true. But I know of many users who have educated themselves and seemingly have done what they can, but they still end up getting some spyware or virus, or something happens. It's so so common. That's what I'm talking about. I think OSs are inherently flawed.

A regular "uneducated" user. So, she has the bullet-proof vest but steps into the line of fire and hopes that it protects her completely. I have a friend who has diabetes - takes his medications and feels that it will protect him when he eats something he isn't supposed to. The more he eats, the more meds he takes. Doesn't work that way.
That's not what she does. She has spend hundreds of dollars fixing her computer, so she tries to follow all of the given advice. Not opening any attachments, religiously keeping all AV and spyware detectors update, she does it all. I know she does. Like several others I know. Eventually, something happens. That's what I have a problem with

How can it be much easier than pushing the button and letting it boot-up? Only thing I would like to see is that all Windows boxes come "complete" with AV, etc. Something the courts and competitors have been trying to stop. Can't win for losing!OS X has done it :)

Macs are better protected than Windows - for now. If Mac was a bigger target, we might be trying to protect them even more also. That said, I'd love to be able to afford the biggest and best Mac available, and keep my Windows boxes as well.
Well this is a discussion that has been heatedly debated about a lot. The thing is, I don't think OS X is impervious to attacks (they most certainly aren't) and with an increased attempts on them that more problems could arise. But the facts are, not one virus. Not one spyware. Not one in years. You would think, that the challenge of bringing down OS X, and wiping the smug smile off of smirking mac users would have attracted *someone* in 5 years. It hasn't.
My experience when I open a new mac is, locked up tighter than a freaking drums. All ports blocked, firewall on stun, and nothing enabled that could compromise the system. That's before you unwrap the thing. While this isn't 100% foolproof, I think *this*, is the step in the right direction. And spyware cannot run unless a user expressly gives it permission. Which may explain why there hasn't been even one instance of it. I've downloaded a ridculous amount of programs and installed them willy nilly, and I'm still using the same install with no problems. I don't think Apple has a patent on security. I think it's time the majority of users have access to this kind of security.

I wouldn't say "smug" covers all TCMers, but I have seen comments like "just Google it", or a vague comment on how to fix something that only someone technical would understand. Most people don't know how "to Google it" - if they did, we wouldn't get to meet them here :D


Bang on - education is the future of civilization. It is the reasaon we have progressed so far, in so little time, in the last 50 years. It is the reason why most TCMers are here.

It is up to those of us who do know, to educate those who don't. If they can't "learn", then assist in any way possible to make their digital life easier and less stressful. You'll never eliminate the "ooppss, but it was from Bill/Betty, and I know them, and it was only a joke they sent!".
And yes finally education. But I guess what I'm saying is, you can educate all you like, but I firmly believe that will only help in a small degree. You are never going to stop that distant aunt from sending you that chain email etc. It's a pipe dream.
..

[Bogie]

Despite my working on Windows for a living, having education into same, my OS protection is no different than anybody else could have. I do not get viruses, trojans, or otherwise. None.

But, when I protect someone else's computer the exact same way, they eventually get something, somehow, from somewhere. When I get it to clean things up, I see spyware "freeware" installed, screensavers they couldn't resist, cookies from "you know what kind of websites", joke email galore in their inbox, etc. With some people it only takes a couple of weeks and, whammo, "I don't know what happened - I never open attachments!". But a new screensaver is installed, "emoticons" toolbar added to their email, a great new toolbar added to Internet Explorer, etc. I install Firefox, remove the IE icon and start menu links, but guess what browser they are using! That said, I use both IE and Firefox (have to for obvious technical reasons), and I don't get infected at all.

These things simply do not happen on their own - they need user-intervention to activate. Especially when protection is installed to stop automated infections from happening that did not involve user-interaction.

[Tim]

Despite my working on Windows for a living, having education into same, my OS protection is no different than anybody else could have. I do not get viruses, trojans, or otherwise. None.

But, when I protect someone else's computer the exact same way, they eventually get something, somehow, from somewhere. When I get it to clean things up, I see spyware "freeware" installed, screensavers they couldn't resist, cookies from "you know what kind of websites", joke email galore in their inbox, etc. With some people it only takes a couple of weeks and, whammo, "I don't know what happened - I never open attachments!". But a new screensaver is installed, "emoticons" toolbar added to their email, a great new toolbar added to Internet Explorer, etc. I install Firefox, remove the IE icon and start menu links, but guess what browser they are using! That said, I use both IE and Firefox (have to for obvious technical reasons), and I don't get infected at all.

These things simply do not happen on their own - they need user-intervention to activate. Especially when protection is installed to stop automated infections from happening that did not involve user-interaction.

What you say is very true. I see it all the time too when friends are always bringing their 'wounded' to my house. I've managed to convince a couple to buy a mac, and I have never seen the system ever. :)
You Bogie are far smarter than the regular computer users and you need to keep that in mind. Many here don't have the kind of problems the majority of users experience. But my point is, you are never going to reach that point of having the majority of users take the time to educate themselves to maintain their computers. most don't care. That's the reality I believe. People already know the basics for years. Don't open attachments, download Pamela Anderson swimsuit/birthday suit calendars screensavers etc.
But they still do, and always will. So it's time to tackle the problem differently.

[Bogie]

..... But they still do, and always will. So it's time to tackle the problem differently. Herein lay the conundrum, and hypothetical question: "If Macs were 90+% of the global usage, would we be discussing how to fix Macs for similar challenges facing Windows users today?".

But, it is not like that, right now, so the issue at hand is how to lock-down Windows to protect users from themselves. As you mentioned, this becomes an OS challenge, not 3rd party. Considering that the architecture of Macs and Windows is different in so many ways, this becomes a very powerful challenge.

Linux is far from ready for prime-time desktop, but it is fairly secure - and running on the same hardware platform as Windows does. This has to open the realm of thought on Windows security. User-friendly, functional Linux distros are being touted as the answer and an alternative OS source for Windows. BUT - those alternatives are not free, as "Linux" Open Source leads you to believe (look at Linspire and Xandros). They are now approaching the cost of Windows as an OS - if you want to do things like you do in Windows, without being one bit of a techie.

While Macs may be the best alternative for Windows, the Cost of Ownership is prohibitive to the vast majority of users (think Global", not just N. America). The relatively low cost Windows OS, and PCs that run it, have fueled the computer technical revolution.

I am sure that this is of major concern to MS, and why they want to include AV, anti-spyware, etc., in the next OS. How to make their OS secure enough to shut down the virus-creating underground industry. Also, how to create a new, and secure, OS architecture without making upgrades impossible to present users.

If I was MS I would bite the bullet and forget compatibility to upgrade present users, and concentrate on a new secure OS. We, in the technical service industry, know of the headaches involved in Windows OS upgrades anyway, and always (most, anyway) suggest a fresh start with a new OS release. The biggest issue/challenge would be software compatibility - that can quite often be more of an investment than the original computer and Windows OS.

Too much of an overall cost for a new Windows OS would create a new market opportunity for Macs - another conundrum.

[Tim]

If I was MS I would bite the bullet and forget compatibility to upgrade present users, and concentrate on a new secure OS. We, in the technical service industry, know of the headaches involved in Windows OS upgrades anyway, and always (most, anyway) suggest a fresh start with a new OS release. The biggest issue/challenge would be software compatibility - that can quite often be more of an investment than the original computer and Windows OS.

Too much of an overall cost for a new Windows OS would create a new market opportunity for Macs - another conundrum.

That's what apple did with OS X. It was growing pains for a couple years. I remember people just *hating* OS X. Me one of them.

MS does need to really lock windows down in a big way. But knowing MS the way we do, that will only mean a lot of proprietary BS especially now that there is new competition from the likes of Adobe.

Running OS X as long as I have, I don't think OS X would have quite the problems windows has even at 90%. But currently what is it... 90,000 viruses to... zero?
;)

[Walter]

It looks like someone walked the talk when it comes to spammers.....it will interesting to see if the motive was spamming or something else.


Russia’s Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment

Created: 25.07.2005 13:14 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:24 MSK, 8 hours 6 minutes ago

MosNews

Vardan Kushnir, notorious for sending spam to each and every citizen of Russia who appeared to have an e-mail, was found dead in his Moscow apartment on Sunday, Interfax reported Monday. He died after suffering repeated blows to the head.

Kushnir, 35, headed the English learning centers the Center for American English, the New York English Centre and the Centre for Spoken English, all known to have aggressive Internet advertising policies in which millions of e-mails were sent every day.

In the past angry Internet users have targeted the American English centre by publishing the Center’s telephone numbers anywhere on the Web to provoke telephone calls. The Center’s telephone was advertised as a contact number for cheap sex services, or bargain real estate sales.

http://mosnews.com/news/2005/07/25/spammerdead.shtml