Texas Republicans oppose teaching critical thinking skills

[Skyguy]

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/i...ical-platform/

Re: The Republican Party of Texas Official 2012 platform

We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

Yep... You read that correctly. No "A" for you Johnny! You think 'outside the box' too much and your parents are not happy with you using careful, rational thinking since it may challenge 'fixed beliefs.'


In related items from their platform:

Controversial Theories – We support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories.
We believe theories such as life origins and environmental change should be taught as challengeable scientific
theories subject to change as new data is produced. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the
strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.

Obvious shots at evolution and climate science (hell... all of science - period), but what else is new...

Immunizations ― All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are
administered to themselves or their minor children without penalty for refusing a vaccine. We oppose any effort
by any authority to mandate such vaccines or any medical database that would contain personal records of
citizens without their consent.

Viruses do not care about who you are or where your particular beliefs lay. Giving people (especially children) a 'pass' on vaccination leads to trouble in the end.

NASA – We strongly encourage the federal government and NASA to work with American citizens and
American businesses to research and develop a new vehicle to continue human space flight and maintain
American’s leadership in space exploration.

This took me by surprise. It takes a lot of people using "Higher Order Thinking Skills" to run space program - from the private or public purse, so I am not sure how this can be reconciled with not teaching it to kids who will be the space entrepreneurs, astronauts and rocket scientists of tomorrow.


I was most interested in their platform points I listed above. Feel free to take a look at the rest if you so wish.


PDF file of the Official Party Platform

[AMD]

Viruses do not care about who you are or where your particular beliefs lay. Giving people (especially children) a 'pass' on vaccination leads to trouble in the end.

If vaccines work as well as the medical establishment claims, there's no reason to make them mandatory.

[uncle hammy]

If vaccines work as well as the medical establishment claims, there's no reason to make them mandatory.

Skyguy doesn't recognize that indoctrination is indoctrination, regardless of what you're being indoctrinated with. Forcing someone who simply does not believe in evolution to accept evolution is no different than the reverse he decries so vehemently. Skyguy thinks science trumps all (including personal freedom), so not unlike Simon, if "science says", then we must all obey... never mind that science is continually readjusting. I happen to believe that personal freedom with in the confines of laws of morality (i.e. murder, theft, rape etc) trumps all.

[Skyguy]

If vaccines work as well as the medical establishment claims, there's no reason to make them mandatory.

What?

How many people with polio and small pox have you seen lately?

[uncle hammy]

What?

How many people with polio and small pox have you seen lately?

WHOOOSH. That's the sound of the point going right over your head.

If the vast majority of a population chooses to get vaccinated (which as history shows, they do because vaccines are NOT mandatory) and a handful don't, a disease can still be eradicated. The odds of the tiny, "unvaccinated" population catching anything become minuscule because they have far fewer infected people they can come in contact with. If they DO catch something, they can only infect each other, and they die off.....and that would be their choice. Either way, in short order, the disease is still eradicated. This is all assuming of coarse that vaccines are effective as claimed.

If on the other hand, the entire population chooses not to be vaccinated, and the entire population is wiped out, well that's free choice in action. You don't have to worry (if, again vaccines are as effective as claimed), because you can get vaccinated and be the sole survivor.

[Skyguy]

Skyguy doesn't recognize that indoctrination is indoctrination, regardless of what you're being indoctrinated with...

No one becomes indoctrinated into Classical mechanics, Quantum mechanics or Geology. Your family doctor did not spend years in a 'Biology-belief camp' being told that they should simply trust on faith alone that there are the these things called viruses and bacteria making people sick.

Using reason, logic, observation, and experimentation, science is always adjusting as new information about the workings of the natural world... Old ideas are fine-tuned and on rare occasions, replaced altogether. That is why it works so bloody well!! It is why humours, crystal spheres and 'the four elements of earth, fire, air and water' were banished centuries ago.

Heck... A few years back, Stephen Hawking challenged the very foundations of all sciences (Google the 'Hawking Paradox' or 'The Black Hole War') and he sits near the very core of the 'scientific establishment.' He did not take the Laws of Thermodynamics and entropy as unquestionable dogma and created a mathematical conundrum aimed at Quantum Mechanics so fiendish that it took years for other scientists to find the flaw in his model. (And in 'defeating' Hawking, new insights into Black Holes were found.)

Saint or sinner, conservative or liberal, rock or a feather, you will still fall down due to force of gravity and feel the impact due to the force of electromagnetism. If you go out in a rainstorm, you are going to get drenched whether you believe it is violating your personal beliefs and freedoms or not.

Nature is impersonal and egalitarian.

[AMD]

What?

How many people with polio and small pox have you seen lately?

How many have you seen with SARS lately even though there's no vaccine for it?

I never claimed that they don't work, just that they shouldn't be mandatory. Institutions have no business forcing anyone to have medical procedures/take drugs/be injected with vaccines which may have unknown long term effects.

[uncle hammy]

No one becomes indoctrinated into Classical mechanics, Quantum mechanics or Geology. Your family doctor did not spend years in a 'Biology-belief camp' being told that they should simply trust on faith alone that there are the these things called viruses and bacteria making people sick.

Dr's spend most of their careers dealing with what if's and "it could work"'s. Any honest Dr will readily admit that.

Using reason, logic, observation, and experimentation, science is always adjusting as new information about the workings of the natural world...

I believe I said that, didn't I? So why should I be forced to put something into my body because the "current" science says it's good for me?

Heck... A few years back, Steven Hawking challenged the very foundations of all sciences (Google the 'Hawking Paradox' or 'The Black Hole War') and he sits near the very core of the 'scientific establishment.' He did not take the Laws of Thermodynamics and entropy as unquestionable dogma and created a mathematical conundrum aimed at Quantum Mechanics so fiendish that it took years for other scientists to find the flaw in his model. (And in 'defeating' Hawking, new insights into Black Holes were found.)

Yawn, entirely uninterested in the ramblings of a nut case.

Saint or sinner, conservative or liberal, rock or a feather, you will still fall down due to force of gravity and feel the impact due to the force of electromagnetism. If you go out in a rainstorm, you are going to get drenched whether you believe it is violating your personal beliefs and freedoms or not.

Nature is impersonal and egalitarian.

You've conveniently left evolution (the original crux of your "it's an attack against) behind for tangible, pretty much indisputable facts....evolution is no such thing. Since you started with Evolution (a much murkier "science") and moved to gravity and getting wet in the rain as your proof, can I say that God is real because 2+2=4?

Question: Do you support Evolution being the only allowable "origin explanation" being taught in schools and being taught as fact? I know you do, because you have stated so numerous times here. Since any person with integrity will admit Evolution is still an unproven theory, you support a form of indoctrination (your theory at the exclusion of others being forced on people).

There are numerous Christians (myself and Darwin included) who understand that Evolution does not exclude the possibility of God.....why do modern evolutionists not recognize that fact?

[Neal]

At least now they will have health care.

[Skyguy]

Dr's spend most of their careers dealing with what if's and "it could work"'s. Any honest Dr will readily admit that.

Doctors are not psychics. All doctors that I have ever talked to about a procedure or medication have told me what degree or risk or uncertainty there is in going down that course. Can complications arise after a vaccination? Certainly, since we do not live in a perfect world.

Thorough investigations and studies the "Ifs" and "it could work"s turn into the drugs and medical procedures that save millions of lives. "If" doctors wash their hands before delivering babies, "it could work" to reduce the incidents of puerperal fever and deaths of mothers after childbirth. A brilliant early 19th century discovery about hygiene that took far too long to adopt widely in part because it pre-dated Germ Theory....

I believe I said that, didn't I? So why should I be forced to put something into my body because the "current" science says it's good for me?

All we ever have is "current science" to work with. Thankfully, scientists are not content to stick to "current science" and keep pushing forward to make new discoveries and change existing theories.
If vaccination was like taking an Aspirin and so relevant to you and only you, there would be noting to discuss. But your vaccination status does have implications for others around you, putting them potentially put them at risk.

Yawn, entirely uninterested in the ramblings of a nut case.

Nut cases burn books, Bibles, Korans, celebrate at the funerals of dead soldiers returning home, think Elvis is still alive, are convinced aliens are kidnapping people to give them weird colonoscopies, and believe that healthcare 'death panels' will march into their homes to drag the old and infirm away to be euthanized.
Hawking, however, is a brilliant theoretical physicist, writer and mathematician. When Stephen Hawking's computer generated voice talks, people listen because he has great insight into the workings of the universe. If you only pay attention to his view on religion, then you have sadly missed a lot of amazing information.

You've conveniently left evolution (the original crux of your "it's an attack against) behind for tangible, pretty much indisputable facts....evolution is no such thing. Since you started with Evolution (a much murkier "science") and moved to gravity and getting wet in the rain as your proof, can I say that God is real because 2+2=4?

If you want tangible evidence and facts, take your pick:

-You can use radio-isotopic dating to give yourself an accurate ‘clock’ in order to look backwards in time.

-You can look back into the geologic record and note that it is not a hodgepodge of all organisms mixed together indiscriminately at all periods in time.
plants appearing in the geologic record around 475 million years ago. We do not find (or have not found) fossils of vertebrate land animals in the fossil record dating back to that time. We have however, found fossils of the first land vertebrates dating back to 375 million years ago. (If you can find a Precambrian elephant or maple tree, you WILL rock the scientific world, from biology to chemistry to particle physics to its very foundations.)

-You can study morphology and comparative anatomy and note the commonalities and differences between different species in order to clarify their relationships with each other.

-There is a pattern of decreasing complexity and variety of organisms as you go further and further into the geologic past. From larger, more robust organisms - to softer and simpler organisms.

-The chemical composition of the oldest plant and bacterial fossils can be analyzed and it can be seen that they did not exist in an oxygen atmosphere. No oxygen, no oxygen breathing organisms.

-You can sequence DNA and discover how mutations occur, the rate at which they occur, and then work backwards to estimate when a trait occurred in a particular species.

(For a much more exhaustive list, visit your nearest natural history museum and ask to speak to any zoologist, botanist or anthropologist. As long as you stick to the here-and-now, and not the hereafter, I have little doubt they will be able to tell you what science currently understands about evolution and what is still not understood.)


Evolution is a ‘process’ which occurs in biology – not at ‘thing’ that one can put in a box and stick a label on. Like the still frames in a movie, each fossil or particular line of evidence taken on its own are not of much use, but seen as a whole (even if a lot of the frames are missing – as in the fossil record), you work out the general plot and which character did what and when.

Evolution and speciation are the result of gradual changes in the genotype and phenotype of populations of organisms over large time scales (frequently, geologic time scales), due to environmental, breeding and resource competition pressures. Thus it is very hard to spot operating over periods the average human can comprehend.
That said, we most definitely do observe organisms making small adaptations to environmental pressures. Some illnesses due to bacterial and viral infections are getting increasingly more difficult to treat because of the selection pressures we have put on them. They must adapt to their changing environment or they go extinct. Larger organisms must also adapt to their ever changing environment... or they go extinct.

Question: Do you support Evolution being the only allowable "origin explanation" being taught in schools and being taught as fact?

The Theory of Evolution is not about abiogenesis but rather a description of the mechanisms which shapes the development of life.
Propose another self consistent theory that explains things just as well without the need for supernatural intervention and people will eventually listen. If that day ever comes, I will be more than happy to consider it and not dismiss it outright. But it had better be good...

I know you do, because you have stated so numerous times here. Since any person with integrity will admit Evolution is still an unproven theory, you support a form of indoctrination (your theory at the exclusion of others being forced on people).

There are numerous Christians (myself and Darwin included) who understand that Evolution does not exclude the possibility of God.....why do modern evolutionists not recognize that fact?

(Darwin was a Christian - and a pastor early in his life - but eventually renounced his Christianity much to the consternation of his wife.) I have no recollection of ever saying that science excludes the possibility of the existence of a God or any particular deity.
The natural sciences do not exclude the existence of God or gods [atheists do that...]. Science cannot comment on the supernatural since it is, by definition, restricted to studying the natural world. No mathematical model or Theory can be written down to describe heaven, hell or limbo... CERN cannot build a particle accelerator to ‘knock-a-piece’ off any of them and verify/refine the mathematical construct.

Scientists can be Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostics or members of the Church of the Second Coming of the Great Prophet Zarquon for that matter. Their theological and religious beliefs are of no use to refine any data they gather.

[Andromeda]

uncle hammy wrote:
There are numerous Christians (myself and Darwin included) who understand that Evolution does not exclude the possibility of God.....why do modern evolutionists not recognize that fact?

I have a question for you uncle hammy is your 'God' male or female, as in Genesis it's really confusing. In one chapter we are told that God made us in His image, male and female He made them,
and in another we are told that the female was made from Adam's rib....so what is the skinny on this confusing information. My religous teacher at school had no answer for this one, but you perhaps do.....and furthermore evolution is a fact, full stop. If there is a God I leave up to people who need this kind of reassurance.....

[Cidknee]

I don't know why you guys are arguing with him. He will always be right, no matter what.

Just don't feed the trolls is my opinion.

[Andromeda]

I don't know why you guys are arguing with him. He will always be right, no matter what.

Just don't feed the trolls is my opinion.

You are of course right, but it's so like 'I'm the only one that knows anything' makes me wonder ya know ..... anyways I'm out of here

[Cidknee]

Oh I know. I've pondered leaving the site entirely, but I try not to let one person spoil it. HELLOOOO block list!

Personally, I grew up around Texas Republicans. I can say I am a card carrying Republican, and even I have some trouble with this. Do I believe you should teach both? Yes. Why? neither is proven. You cant prove god, you cant prove Darwins theory either. Give the kids the knowledge and let them decide.

Do I think vaccinations should be mandatory, NO. Do I think parents are absolute morons for not getting them. YES! The issue is not the vaccinations, but the freedom to choose to have them or not.

And NASA? really? Lets think of the 80s when it was cool to be part of NASA and it was creating millions of jobs, yup that's what they want. More jobs. Help NASA explore the world, create jobs for us, and then if we discover something Republicans can say, see...told ya.

Oh well. Until you have met and talked with a Texan, these views may seem odd. Then you need to remember, Texas is not its own state, or country. Its a whole other world. They just think different down there. Not wrong or bad, but different.

[uncle hammy]

Oh I know. I've pondered leaving the site entirely, but I try not to let one person spoil it. HELLOOOO block list!

Yawn. Just because someone doesn't agree with you or challenges your position doesn't mean you're being attacked.

Personally, I grew up around Texas Republicans. I can say I am a card carrying Republican, and even I have some trouble with this. Do I believe you should teach both? Yes. Why? neither is proven. You cant prove god, you cant prove Darwins theory either. Give the kids the knowledge and let them decide.

You're 100% right.

Do I think vaccinations should be mandatory, NO. Do I think parents are absolute morons for not getting them. YES! The issue is not the vaccinations, but the freedom to choose to have them or not.

Also 100% right

And NASA? really? Lets think of the 80s when it was cool to be part of NASA and it was creating millions of jobs, yup that's what they want. More jobs. Help NASA explore the world, create jobs for us, and then if we discover something Republicans can say, see...told ya.

Government can't create jobs. Government can only forcibly steal....err tax....money from everyone else and distribute it to others...in this case, under the guise of a "job". I am somewhat shocked that Republicans are supporting such a massive boondoggle.

Oh well. Until you have met and talked with a Texan, these views may seem odd. Then you need to remember, Texas is not its own state, or country. Its a whole other world. They just think different down there. Not wrong or bad, but different.

Also 100% correct.

[uncle hammy]

I have a question for you uncle hammy is your 'God' male or female, as in Genesis it's really confusing.

Neither. Why do you assume God has a human gender?

In one chapter we are told that God made us in His image, male and female He made them,
and in another we are told that the female was made from Adam's rib....so what is the skinny on this confusing information.

I don't understand what's confusing you. God made Adam and made Eve from Adam's rib. The confusing part is???? You don't think male and female share a very similar form?

....and furthermore evolution is a fact, full stop.

Proof, please. I'm talking "You jump in water you get wet" PROOF, not "This and this and this POINT to Evolution being true" evidence. Now, before you try to give a non answer and turn it back on me to give you PROOF that God exists...I can't. However, my beliefs are rooted in faith, which by its very nature precludes me from an expectation of being able to provide you with proof. Your statement "evolution is a fact, full stop" however places a very heavy burden on you to be able to back it up with proof....if you're to be taken seriously.

If there is a God I leave up to people who need this kind of reassurance.....

Has nothing to do with "reassurance" for me.....

[Skyguy]

I don't know why you guys are arguing with him. He will always be right, no matter what.

Just don't feed the trolls is my opinion.

Never become complacent when it comes to the spread of confusion and misinformation about science in the public realm. Speak up and make yourself heard over the noise.

[Cidknee]

Never become complacent when it comes to the spread of confusion and misinformation about science in the public realm. Speak up and make yourself heard over the noise.

i agree... but theres only so many times I would bash my head against a wall till its bloody.

And uncle hammy: its not people challenging my opinion I have an issue with. Its people who always cause an argument over everything, dont think anyone else's opinion is valid and they are smarter than everyone. Its the way you come across. The way you put others down by making yourself seems sooooo smart. You may be and well informed, but by showing it the way you do, people hate you for it.

Tone it down, we know you know everything about everything. Chill

[BillD]

LOL. I will gladly debate the existence of God with anyone who has been dead, like me. Religion has always been about thought control, and is a very convenient vehicle for passing on blame to someone else or excusing bad behavior.

[Swordfish]

I can just feel the love in this thread.

[uncle hammy]

LOL. I will gladly debate the existence of God with anyone who has been dead, like me. Religion has always been about thought control, and is a very convenient vehicle for passing on blame to someone else or excusing bad behavior.

There's a big difference between debate and "evolution is FACT, full stop" . "Debate" by definition acknowledges there's question as to its validity.

[uncle hammy]

You may be and well informed, but by showing it the way you do, people hate you for it.

That's hate speech, and in direct opposition to this forum's rules...

[Tess]

Guys, it's a forum, if someone doesnt agree with you, so be it, it's a matter of opinion, everyone has one..it's how to bring it across the table without offending anyone.
I know people fling insults around like water sprinkles..but hey..tempers dont have to come into it.

Thanks, and have a great (hot and steamy) afternoon...it's much too hot to bring out my broomstick

[Cidknee]

I in no way meant to break the rules of the forum. I wholeheartedly understand to just move on and not let the trolls get to you. I simply meant that the way you come across as all knowing and we are just stupid and should be honored to be in your all knowing presence...bothers people. Sorry man, it does.

I am moving off of this thread as well, its gone from a debate about the topic to one person telling us how dumb we are because we believe what we believe and what we should believe.

exit...stage right!

[Tess]

I in no way meant to break the rules of the forum. I wholeheartedly understand to just move on and not let the trolls get to you. I simply meant that the way you come across as all knowing and we are just stupid and should be honored to be in your all knowing presence...bothers people. Sorry man, it does.

I am moving off of this thread as well, its gone from a debate about the topic to one person telling us how dumb we are because we believe what we believe and what we should believe.

exit...stage right!

Cidknee, I purposely did not direct my comments to any one person. I dont think I need to point out again what's already been said. No fingers pointed.

Sometimes we just need to say 'something' for people to just 'think' about what they're saying and how.

I agree Snagglepuss, except I'm exiting STAGE LEFT.

[uncle hammy]

I in no way meant to break the rules of the forum.

Dude, I was joking