H.O.V. (high-occupancy vehicle) lanes on major highways - Good or bad idea?

[T_Totler]

Sections of the Don Valley Parkway and Highway 403 in Ontario will include high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes - otherwise known as carpooling lanes - starting December 13, 2005.

The Don Valley Parkway will have an HOV lane going southbound from Highway 7 to Highway 401, while the 403 will have one in both directions between the 407 and the 401.

"HOV lanes encourage carpooling, which will move more people in fewer vehicles," said Transportation Minister Harinder Takhar. "Less congestion on our roads will mean a shorter drive to and from work, which translates into more quality time at home with our families."

The lanes will be marked by special diamond symbols on the road and will have dedicated entrance and exit points. Police will be patrolling these new lanes, penalizing drivers who use them incorrectly.

The Ontario government is in the midst of spending $100 million on HOV lanes.

http://autonet.ca/Environment/story....6/1340848.html

I think this is a great idea but with police resources stretched to the limit as they are right now, it will be difficult to enforce. Not stated in the above article is that the penalty for improper use is a fine of (I think) $110.00 and 3 demerit points.

More links here:

http://ogov.newswire.ca/getorg_e.html?okey=48678

[grs7]

Already enough drivers cutting directly from the far left lane to get off at their exit at the last moment. Some people will see these lanes with little or no traffic in them and cut in and out of them to get a few cars farther ahead. It would work if the HOV lanes were separated, as in some U.S. cities. Will probably increase the number of accidents.

[T_Totler]

Already enough drivers cutting directly from the far left lane to get off at their exit at the last moment.

That's true. With or without HOV lanes, there will still be idiotic drivers that don't pay attention to the exit signs. On the 400 series, there are plenty of signs indicating the distances to the next exits.

Some people will see these lanes with little or no traffic in them and cut in and out of them to get a few cars farther ahead

I agree, and this goes back to police enforcement as I indicated above. It's no different than speeding. Not enough cops to enforce the laws.

It would work if the HOV lanes were separated, as in some U.S. cities. Will probably increase the number of accidents.

Do you mean separated by a physical barrier?

I still think the idea of HOV lanes has merit and, at the very least, warrants a tryout. If it turns out to be the same failure as those "bus lanes" on major arteries, then scrap it.

[networkguy]

Its a stupid idea. I have been putting up with increased congestion and traffic jams on the southbound 404 since the summer when this stupid lane was put in. What exactly is going to make people all of a sudden carpool?

'Oh, look, now we have a carpool lane, lets all carpool!'

Its so typical of a politicians to waste tax payers money in doing something like this, and then just expect people will start carpooling?

Where are people supposed to park their cars to carpool? There used to be an area over by the 400 and Major Mac for people to park so they could carpool and there isn't even a carpool lane there. There is no designated spot to part for the carpooling lane on the 404.

The roads are already congested beyond capacity, and now we have less lanes because there is one dedicated to carpooling. Great idea, but how are the politicians going to get people to do it, how are they going to motiviate them? Basically pepole will just start driving in the lane and cops will be handing out tickets.

NG

[Rustynut]

I think it a good idea, creating even more congestion will lead people to demand a better transit system, in all directions.

When it takes you 4 hours to get to work and another 4 hours to get home after an 8 hour day that will stress people enough to demand a better system.
Now the smart thing to do is to move closer to your place of employment instead of commuting accross the city as many do.

The law already allows busses to move in and out of traffic with impunity so why not create a Diamond lane for just busses within the city and on the major highways a lane for busses and vehicles with 4 or more passengers.

It is high time to send some of the planners to Europe to see how their transit systems work, they still have congestion but many more people are moved in the same time frame.

I can't wait to hear the howls when the cities of the GTA adopt a city licence system as Chicago does, where you buy a city sticker for your car each year. The cost of this sticker exceeds the licence fee paid to the state, last I heard from relatives it is double the state's licence fee. It was heralded as a way to subsidize CTA and encourage the use of the transit sytem but became a popular cash cow.

I am glad I need not live and work in a large city, London has more than enough idiot drivers for my liking, and when I want a good laugh I accept a trip to Missisaugastan.

[Bogie]

Toronto could also look a little closer to home - Ottawa.

Bus-only lanes in Ottawa



Downtown workers use OTC
In the Ottawa area, 70% of the employed in the downtown area use transit to get to work due largely to a bus-based rapid transit system consisting of a network of bus lanes and bus-only streets serving the metropolitan area. The system currently consists of approximately 32 km of busway, as well as reserve bus lanes on expressways and city streets. The reserved lanes through the downtown, in an innovative configuration called "Fast Acting Lanes", carry approximately 200 buses per hour per direction. Source: Delcan

[networkguy]

Now see that makes sense, if only we could do this in Toronto.

NG

[T_Totler]

Now see that makes sense, if only we could do this in Toronto.

NG

Bus only lanes are useless. In Bogie's pic, do you not notice the traffic backup in the other 2 lanes?? Why not not make those same lanes HOV and thereby relieve some of the traffic from the other 2 lanes?

And besides, you can't compare Ottawa to Toronto.

[Rustynut]

And besides, you can't compare Ottawa to Toronto.

No, Tremblett is quite right, if you look closely at the pic Bogie posted, and looked carefully to the left lane you would notice that if this were Toronto some dumbass would be driving to the left of the yellow line of the left lane.

That pic shows civilized driving, Toronto is definitely not civilized rather "Me First and to hell with YOU!"

[Hatshepsut]

Toronto could also look a little closer to home - Ottawa.

Bus-only lanes in Ottawa


Downtown workers use OTC
In the Ottawa area, 70% of the employed in the downtown area use transit to get to work due largely to a bus-based rapid transit system consisting of a network of bus lanes and bus-only streets serving the metropolitan area. The system currently consists of approximately 32 km of busway, as well as reserve bus lanes on expressways and city streets. The reserved lanes through the downtown, in an innovative configuration called "Fast Acting Lanes", carry approximately 200 buses per hour per direction. Source: Delcan

Federal public service employees in the Ottawa area (National Capital region) enjoy a 15 percent discount on local transit passes, and get to pay by payroll deduction. This is a pilot project to encourage federal public service employees to take public transit to work, as part of the federal goverment's overall sustainable development program. Supporting sustainable development is included in many federal departments' employees annual performance reviews. For now, the transit discount is only being offered in the Ottawa region.

[T_Totler]

Federal public service employees in the Ottawa area (National Capital region) enjoy a 15 percent discount on local transit passes, and get to pay by payroll deduction. This is a pilot project to encourage federal public service employees to take public transit to work, as part of the federal goverment's overall sustainable development program. Supporting sustainable development is included in many federal departments' employees annual performance reviews. For now, the transit discount is only being offered in the Ottawa region.

Again, another reason why you can't compare Toronto to Ottawa. The federal government employees are what keeps Ottawa on the map.

[Taz]

Again, another reason why you can't compare Toronto to Ottawa. The federal government employees are what keeps Ottawa on the map.

But Toronto and London could learn from what they have done, offer discounts to companies that get a certain % of employees to buy bus passes with a payroll deduction plan. Cab companies could develop something similar

[Walter]

The solution I keep putting forward, but which doesn't seem to get any support, is if you want to reduce congestion on the roads the first thing you do is shut down all parking lots used by civil servants at the municipal, provincial and federal levels.

[Bogie]

The solution I keep putting forward, but which doesn't seem to get any support, is if you want to reduce congestion on the roads the first thing you do is shut down all parking lots used by civil servants at the municipal, provincial and federal levels.

You can't do that, plain and simple. Any solution, along the vein of what you are suggesting, would need to be on a global scale, and even that would be challenged.

A much better public transportation system must be implemented. What Ottawa has done, what a lot of Europe has done, what Japan has done, are examples of how they move people into major cities. If it isn't convenient and comfortable, it won't be used.

Major dollars placed into this is required. Toronto has a fairly good subway system, but lacks certain elements. Parking is poor at major subway stations that terminate/start at the furthest points. "Kiss and Ride" stations - c'mon, let's use some common sense. The subway, itself, could also use a makeover similar to that of Montreal.

On the surface, public transportation corridors are required. Yep, that would certainly impact traffic flow, but if the public transportation was a viable and working alternative, it would work, eventually. Nothing will change overnight. Street cars need sole rights to their routes.

[Mouse]

Policing HOV lanes could be easily done, by auxiliary police sitting at a desk, utilizing the same cameras used for photo radar.

All vehicles in the lane are photographed, if you don't have someone in the passenger seat you get a ticket.

[Exmortis]

All vehicles in the lane are photographed, if you don't have someone in the passenger seat you get a ticket.

I'd suspect a surging demand for blown-up dolls too.

[Mouse]

Simple solution.

Double the fine.

[grs7]

A lot of American cities have the HOV lanes separtated from the regular lanes by a physical barrier. Some areas have car only express lanes with there own ramps to the exits. Other cities use a movable type concrete barrier. This allows not only HOV lanes, but more lanes overall in the direction of the most traffic flow.

[Exmortis]

Simple solution. Double the fine.

So you're expecting the officers to carefully inspect snapshots of every single cars driving by to determine if it's a human or not?

[Exmortis]

Other cities use a movable type concrete barrier. This allows not only HOV lanes, but more lanes overall in the direction of the most traffic flow.

Are those cities suffering from our climate too? I wonder how those mechanical barriers work with ice and snow build-ups..

[Mouse]

Not well, I would expect.

And catching the cheaters would be up to patrolling officers. They, and other emergency vehicles, would be exempt.

Another bonus when someone is heading for the E.R., or to a fire.

[Walter]

You can't do that, plain and simple. Any solution, along the vein of what you are suggesting, would need to be on a global scale, and even that would be challenged.

A much better public transportation system must be implemented. What Ottawa has done, what a lot of Europe has done, what Japan has done, are examples of how they move people into major cities. If it isn't convenient and comfortable, it won't be used.

Major dollars placed into this is required. Toronto has a fairly good subway system, but lacks certain elements. Parking is poor at major subway stations that terminate/start at the furthest points. "Kiss and Ride" stations - c'mon, let's use some common sense. The subway, itself, could also use a makeover similar to that of Montreal.

On the surface, public transportation corridors are required. Yep, that would certainly impact traffic flow, but if the public transportation was a viable and working alternative, it would work, eventually. Nothing will change overnight. Street cars need sole rights to their routes.

The only way you are going to get positive action on public transit, IMO, is to attack the complacency of drivers starting with the decision makers. Make them walk the talk and see how quickly you will see improvements. After the decision makers then we can deal with the bedroom communities that use Toronto as their income base but live outside the city.

The downside, of course, is that we will drive business from the city but that in itself will reduce road congestion.

My suggestions are a win/win situation.....tranquility and harmony for Toronto and will relieve the dunderheads at city hall of having to make important decisions.

[T_Totler]

Well, if today is any indication of things to come, the cops will have their hands full enforcing this it seems.

Approximately 50% of the cars I saw this morning using the HOV lane on the southbound 404 had no passengers. I didn't see any cops either.

[Bogie]

Well, if today is any indication of things to come, the cops will have their hands full enforcing this it seems.

Approximately 50% of the cars I saw this morning using the HOV lane on the southbound 404 had no passengers. I didn't see any cops either.

After listening to 680News, the OPP also handed out a lot of tickets - no mercy. The other predictable problem was that people are not letting people back into the regular lanes. The OPP have their hands full and, according to Sgt Cam Wooley, they will be enforcing it to the letter.

[T_Totler]

After listening to 680News, the OPP also handed out a lot of tickets - no mercy. The other predictable problem was that people are not letting people back into the regular lanes. The OPP have their hands full and, according to Sgt Cam Wooley, they will be enforcing it to the letter.

Yes, I heard that as well. I just didn't see any cops on the stretch on the 404 I was driving on this morning (between hwy 7 and the 401).

It's too bad that there isn't enough room to lengthen the HOV lane further south.

[Al_Kendrick]

Toronto could also look a little closer to home - Ottawa.

Bus-only lanes in Ottawa

Downtown workers use OTC
In the Ottawa area, 70% of the employed in the downtown area use transit to get to work due largely to a bus-based rapid transit system consisting of a network of bus lanes and bus-only streets serving the metropolitan area. The system currently consists of approximately 32 km of busway, as well as reserve bus lanes on expressways and city streets. The reserved lanes through the downtown, in an innovative configuration called "Fast Acting Lanes", carry approximately 200 buses per hour per direction. Source: Delcan

Thank god there are no Timmies on those routes otherwise it would be a 32km parking lot!!

[Ken_ver_1_5]

I think the idea ia simply wrong.
Losing demerit points is normally left to doing something unsafe to yourself or
others. In this case its neither and makes no sense.

[T_Totler]

I think the idea ia simply wrong.
Losing demerit points is normally left to doing something unsafe to yourself or
others. In this case its neither and makes no sense.

They are throwing demerit points in as a further deterrent.

[Exmortis]

Losing demerit points is normally left to doing something unsafe to yourself or others.

No. Demerit points are about not following the rules of the road. Danger or not.

[Chrispy]

No. Demerit points are about not following the rules of the road. Danger or not.

Hence the true definition of Demerit.